119 comments on UK's Guardian: Are Capitalism and a Habitable Planet Mutually Exclusive?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
119 comments on UK's Guardian: Are Capitalism and a Habitable Planet Mutually Exclusive?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Local
- Home Buyers Demand Short Commutes, Efficient Homes (with Backyards, Parking, lots of Square Feet)
- Streets: Utilitarian Corridors or Livable Public Space
- Summer Streets a Success!
TOD:Europe
- IEA WEO 2008 - Fossil Fuel Ultimates and CO2 Emissions Scenarios
- The IEA WEO 2008: Will coal usage be phased out?
- Oilwatch Monthly - November 2008
TOD:Canada
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
- Oil Megaproject Update (July 2008)
TOD:ANZ
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
“So one may almost say that the theory of universal suffrage assumes that the Average Citizen is an active, instructed, intelligent ruler of his country. The facts contradict this assumption.”
—James Bryce (1909, 35)
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Prof. Goose, Heading Out, Stuart Staniford, Nate Hagens
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Gail the Actuary, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Khebab, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Local: Glenn
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.





GAIA Host Collective
Larger societies need central control. Perhaps a king whose advisors can keep tabs on the entire kingdom, so he can see the big picture even though his subjects cannot. The king derives his wealth from the entire kingdom, and wants his heirs to do the same, so it's in his interest to protect the whole kingdom.
Neither system works for middle-sized societies (and possibly large societies with weak central control). If the society is not large enough to support a central government, but too large for everyone to have a stake in everything, it collapses in internecine fighting.
It's worrying, because it suggests there might be some issues with democracy as a method of government. An elected leader may not have the same incentive to protect the entire nation that a king has, since his time in office is limited. In theory, that might encourage looting the nation while you can. In practice, we've seen it happen exactly that way, time and again.
And with our level of technology, the "society" must be global if we hope to protect the commons. Limiting our emissions will do little good if China decides to burn all the cheap coal they can get ahold of. A nuclear war that breaks out in the Middle East could rain radiation on the entire world, or worse.
I think Newman is right. Capitalism is a great system for quickly exploiting natural resources, but it won't work in resource-limited world.
Damned if I know what will, though.
In a very large one the king or other ruler can isolate themselves from most of the country. Democratically replaced leaders have to retire somewhere and who would want to do that as a refugee? It would be quite boring for them in a small enclave surrounded by people who hate them. This means that you do not want to have jet set party in any mega city people as your leaders...
The level above this is tricky. EU is one try for a continent wide solution for this problem. A good start is to see to that everything is owned by some country and that countries gang up on those who relese polutant into other countries seas etc.
I think capitalism also can exploit change and leftover resources like assets from bankrupt companies.
WOW!!!!!
Go figure.
This is not a hard thing. The economic system of a country can be separate from the political system.
So quit conflating dictatorship with any other system than capitalism.
I would like to point out that there have been systems of economic organization other than capitalism that worked just fine. The anarchists of Andalusia come to mind. It is unfortunate that the people in this forum are ignorant of history. (Please don't start in with how you know all about the history of communism or some such nonsense.) People educated in the US school system seem to believe that there was no human history before television was invented. So sad.
My point is that we are in a situation no society has been in before, due to the power of our technology. Certainly, people have died due to the ecological mistakes of other societies before (as Diamond points out with regard to Pitcairn and Henderson Islands). But we're at a whole new level now. We cannot just ignore what China or Russia or Israel or Iran decide to do, because what they do could end up exterminating us all.