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119 comments on UK's Guardian: Are Capitalism and a Habitable Planet Mutually Exclusive?

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Cherenkov on February 4, 2006 - 12:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You know what? There were social organizations BEFORE oil. Before the industrial revolution.

WOW!!!!!

Go figure.

This is not a hard thing. The economic system of a country can be separate from the political system.

So quit conflating dictatorship with any other system than capitalism.

I would like to point out that there have been systems of economic organization other than capitalism that worked just fine. The anarchists of Andalusia come to mind. It is unfortunate that the people in this forum are ignorant of history. (Please don't start in with how you know all about the history of communism or some such nonsense.) People educated in the US school system seem to believe that there was no human history before television was invented. So sad.

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Jack on February 4, 2006 - 7:29am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
So, anyone who is not aware of the blindingly obvious example of the anarchists of Andalusia as a model for economic organizations other than capitalism is ignorant of history?
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Leanan on February 4, 2006 - 10:27am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I'm not conflating dictatorship with systems other than capitalism.  I was merely using some examples from a well-known book that many peak oilers have read.  

My point is that we are in a situation no society has been in before, due to the power of our technology.  Certainly, people have died due to the ecological mistakes of other societies before (as Diamond points out with regard to Pitcairn and Henderson Islands).  But we're at a whole new level now.  We cannot just ignore what China or Russia or Israel or Iran decide to do, because what they do could end up exterminating us all.

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Johnny on February 4, 2006 - 10:54am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Should the US be added to the list?
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Leanan on February 4, 2006 - 11:06am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Absolutely.  I did not mean to blame any of the countries I named in particular.  With issues like global warming, we all contribute.  The U.S. more than most, no doubt.
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Prof. Goose on February 4, 2006 - 12:08pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
ah, but Leanan, (just be Lucifer's advocate) how much food, technology, etc., does the US produce relative to the rest of the world?
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Leanan on February 4, 2006 - 12:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I don't think it matters.  If, say, Dr. Goodstein's worst-case scenario happens, and we tip the world climate into a state "incompatible with life," will anyone care what we did to produce those emissions?  Building nuclear missiles, growing food, driving SUVs, or mass barbecuing at tailgating parties - does it matter?
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