The Oil Drum | Surprise, surprise: Hummer is a pariah

74 comments on Surprise, surprise: Hummer is a pariah

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louGrinzo on February 28, 2006 - 1:39pm

While I'm very wary of moralizing about energy issues (one of the main reasons I find Kunstler so insufferable), I have to admit that I'm happy to see some interest in shunning Hummers.

As I've said several times on my own site, people buy minivans because they needs the space, not because they're following a fad. But in the US a large share of pickup trucks and SUV's (especially Hummers) are bought by people chasing a fashion. There are some people who really do need pickups and SUV's (like my brother-in-law, who runs a construction company), but for the vast majority of drivers a car or minivan is fine.

Well, I guess it's time to dig out all my Talking Heads CD's and have a David Byrne overdose...

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Donal on February 28, 2006 - 2:13pm

"Psycho Killer" would be a great theme song for the Hummer.

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futurebird on February 28, 2006 - 5:11pm

I agree. I was surprised to hear Gary Numan's "cars" in a car add once. It's not a song that makes you want to drive. Here in my car -- I feel safest of all -- I can lock all my doors --It's the only way to live -- In cars

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skeptic on February 28, 2006 - 3:00pm

louGrinzo said:
"Well, I guess it's time to dig out all my Talking Heads CD's and have a David Byrne overdose... "

The perfect place to start is "(Nothing But) Flowers" on the album "Naked"(1988)
... a nostalgic 'look back' to the age of oil...

Here we stand
Like an Adam and an Eve
Waterfalls
The Garden of Eden
Two fools in love
So beautiful and strong
The birds in the trees
Are smiling upon them
From the age of the dinosaurs
Cars have run on gasoline
Where, where have they gone?
Now, it's nothing but flowers

There was a factory
Now there are mountains and rivers
you got it, you got it

We caught a rattlesnake
Now we got something for dinner
we got it, we got it

There was a shopping mall
Now it's all covered with flowers
you've got it, you've got it

If this is paradise
I wish I had a lawnmower
you've got it, you've got it

Years ago
I was an angry young man
I'd pretend
That I was a billboard
Standing tall
By the side of the road
I fell in love
With a beautiful highway
This used to be real estate
Now it's only fields and trees
Where, where is the town
Now, it's nothing but flowers
The highways and cars
Were sacrificed for agriculture
I thought that we'd start over
But I guess I was wrong

Once there were parking lots
Now it's a peaceful oasis
you got it, you got it

This was a Pizza Hut
Now it's all covered with daisies
you got it, you got it

I miss the honky tonks,
Dairy Queens, and 7-Elevens
you got it, you got it

And as things fell apart
Nobody paid much attention
you got it, you got it

I dream of cherry pies,
Candy bars, and chocolate chip cookies
you got it, you got it

We used to microwave
Now we just eat nuts and berries
you got it, you got it

This was a discount store,
Now it's turned into a cornfield
you got it, you got it

Don't leave me stranded here
I can't get used to this lifestyle

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Leanan on February 28, 2006 - 3:12pm

Wow. I can't believe that's a real song. I'll have to check it out.

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Yankee on February 28, 2006 - 4:08pm

I have long loved this song, and since I became PO-aware, I have started to think that if I had one question left in the world that I could ask (or that proverbial "what famous person would you have dinner with" question), I would ask David Byrne why he wrote that song.

He lives in NYC. Maybe I'll run into him one day. If I do, I'll ask him if he knew about peak oil in 1988.

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bigfootvegan on February 28, 2006 - 6:04pm

He must off known, I love this song.

My favourite PO track is "Big Business" its an extra on the "stop making sense" DVD

"Think you've had enough
huh?

stop talking
help us get ready

Big business
after the shakeup

Stop talking help us get ready"

me and a friend always refer to post peak as "the shakeup" now

"Life during wartime" is also quite apt. but probably more for the billy cottrells of this world

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jokuhl on February 28, 2006 - 8:58pm

My favorite Revolution Sellout Ads were the ones for Phillips?? FlatPanel TV's, a couple years ago, which always wrapped up with the Beatles' 'Getting Better'. I don't care if it was McCartney or Jackson who got the check, it was just sad.

I designed some of my own versions of those ads, one where African Kids in dustbowl villages are huddled excitedly around a shiny new Coke Machine, while the Bottling Company Upstream has dammed their river (cue music), and another where people are all driving Bradleys and Tanks down the highways to the mall, which is full of the same..

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expat on March 1, 2006 - 2:24am

Hello,
the song I enjoyed the most from Talking Heads was this -

---------------------
The Big Country
---------------------

I see the shapes,
I remember from maps.
I see the shoreline.
I see the whitecaps.
A baseball diamond, nice weather down there.
I see the school and the houses where the kids are.
Places to park by the fac'tries and buildings.
Restaunts and bar for later in the evening.
Then we come to the farmlands, and the undeveloped areas.
And I have learned how these things work together.
I see the parkway that passes through them all.
And I have learned how to look at these things and I say,

(CHORUS)

I wouldn't live there if you paid me.
I couldn't live like that, no siree!
I couldn't do the things the way those people do.
I couldn't live there if you paid me to.

I guess it's healthy, I guess the air is clean.
I guess those people have fun with their neighbors and friends.
Look at that kitchen and all of that food.
Look at them eat it' guess it tastes real good.

They grow it in the farmlands
And they take it to the stores
They put it in the car trunk
And they bring it back home
And I say ...

(CHORUS)

I say, I wouldn't live there if you paid me.
I couldn't live like that, no siree!
I couldn't do the things the way those people do.
I wouldn't live there if you paid me to.

I'm tired of looking out the windows of the airplane
I'm tired of travelling, I want to be somewhere.
It's not even worth talking
About those people down there.

Goo Goo Ga Ga Ga
Goo Goo Ga Ga Ga

-----------------------

Peak Oil and Kunstler's suburbia hatred in one song.

I actually posted excerpts from this article at Kunstler's site a few days ago.

What was most interesting about it was how it actually shows a number of people not buying into certain current American myths - and this group ranges pretty wide, with music over decades. Strange how it becomes interesting news to get an occasional reminder that principle is still part of being a person.

And Byrne has his own radio station at -

http://www.davidbyrne.com/radio/

We don't really need the mass media, which is why I wonder so many people care about the MSM - notice that this article, spreading through the Net, is not really MSM in the traditional sense - though it is very good journalism. Read about Byrne's experiences, and you might notice that the MSM is part of the problem in a number of ways, some quite concrete. There are certain inherent virtues in not using corporate sources except as completely untrusted information sources requiring thought and cross-referencing.

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praetzel on February 28, 2006 - 3:23pm

I disagree.

People buy monster-vans because energy prices are so cheap and that they figure than once in a while they'll need the space! Hell I've got a mid 40's (eternally) single neighbour looking to buy a SUV because one a year he MIGHT want to move some larger items that don't fit into his, current, full-sized car! This is the same moron who complains about having to cut his grass and yet he fertilizes it etc etc!! Note - he DOES NOT go outside of his house!!

Several friends (even Green Party supporters!) just bought a pollution spewing minivan because they had a 2nd child. Heck, if we had a third we'd still be in a car!
But that's our beliefs expressing themselves. Few people think about the pollution they're making, the conseques of their actions, or even think about what they need vs what they want.
Basically I see very very VERY little proof that people can moderate their wants or desires and that's the basis of destructive capitalism! Check this out:

http://www.drmcdougall.com/misc/2006nl/february/moderation.htm

My family went vegetarian for, in order of importance:
1) the environment
2) health
3) animal welfare

but I've recently gone vegan because of #2.
Curiously enough if peak oil hit in force I would have no quams about eating some small quantity of animal products - as long as they're free range and not from modern "farms".

One interesting interview as with Dr. Davis Suzuki when they were filling in a big city hospital during a smog day. He said that the people coming in were kids and elderly being brought my middle-age people driving SUVs. They would all do anything to help their family members in distress - but NONE of them saw the link between their pollution spewing road hogs and the injury done to their family members :<

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Leanan on February 28, 2006 - 3:38pm

I think some people need vans. My boss has a wife, three little kids, an elderly mother, and two dogs in his household, and driving a minivan is probably a better option than taking two cars, which is what they'd do otherwise. The days when you could throw the kids in the back of a station wagon or pickup truck are long gone.

But a lot of people don't need them. I have a friend who bought minivans because she had four kids. The kids are grown and gone now, but she still buys minivans. She likes to sit up high, so she can see over the other traffic.

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HKThom on February 28, 2006 - 3:49pm

I find it odd that Dr McDougall equates "passionate" with "obsessive" and "compulsive". I don't agree with that wording (you can certainly be passionate about moderation), but the general point remains.

I find it is very difficult for even very rational people to completely see the connections between their actions and their situation (to be fair I probably couldn't claim to be perfect in this regard either). My sister who doesn't (or can't or won't) see the connection between or irony of the long line of SUVs waiting to pick up children at her kids' school and the American flags and yellow ribbons on the bumpers. Thinking wholistically, let alone globally, is difficult.

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veganmaster on February 28, 2006 - 10:28pm

Praetzel, I was enjoying your post even before you totally surprised me with your Dr. McDougall link. Congratulations on going vegan. I've been enjoying that road for about 10 years now. As the saying goes, there's no such thing as a meat-eating environmentalist :). McDougall is one of my favorite (science-based) nutrition authors exactly because he doesn't accept the mantra of "moderation." As the recent landmark book "The China Study" elucidates so well, even small amounts of animal products raise disease risk. The American Heart Association's "heart-healthy" diet is a classic example of the failure of moderation. Studies reveal that even when patients follow this protocol, their arteries still worsen, and they still die (though not quite as quickly). As you probably know now, this is the kind of typically ineffective nutritional remedy offered by "modern" science, despite direct invervention studies proving that atherosclerosis is totally reversible. A fascinating fact is that as we stumble along the "bumby plateau" of peak oil (or even slide sharply down the curve) - a huge number of people will be forced away from massively inefficient, disease-inducing animal foods and into health-sustaining plants. Millions of decadent and obese Americans will regain vibrant health, reconnecting with their own bodies, despite economic turmoil. And hopefully the tremendous amounts of grain, etc., we're feeding to food animals will be redirected to human mouths, while cutting out the suffering of billions of sentient creatures at the same time. It's a staggering and strange web we weave, indeed.

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prole on February 28, 2006 - 8:35pm

Why is Kunstler so insufferable to you?

I really don't see the reason so many here don't like him.

He strikes me as being spot on in his comments.

We will have to make alternate arrangements.

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TrueKaiser on February 28, 2006 - 9:26pm

he does come off as a little blunt.

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Dave Cohen on February 28, 2006 - 10:22pm

So what? That's a good thing. Somebody out there has to tell the truth and be rude about it in order to try to wake up people who are asleep and living in a fantasy world. Style? He's got it.

Here at TOD, the story contributors and commenters present the "hard cold facts" but that doesn't actually get through to most people. A proselytizer like Kuntsler (like Paul of Tarsus) is just what we need. The analogy breaks down a bit because peak oil is not a religion and there's no Kingdom to look forward to. Instead, it is a geological, geopolitical reality but every reality-based movement that goes against the grain needs a fire-breathing prophet or two. Who do you want to listen to--one of Colin Campbell's boring but accurate lectures on the subject of peak oil or Jim Kunstler who gives you a sense of what's really at stake here?

I'm glad he's around and saying what he's saying.

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TrueKaiser on February 28, 2006 - 11:28pm

some days i realy wish there was a way to convey tone of voice with text.
i did not mean to make it sound like i did not like Kuntsler. all i wanted to do was point out that he speaks rather bluntly, which can be good or bad depending on how you look at it.

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Engineer-Poet on February 28, 2006 - 10:52pm

There's something about schadenfreude that's unpleasant. Kunstler is smart enough to propose solutions, but he'd rather not.

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Leanan on February 28, 2006 - 11:17pm

I like Kunstler. My only beef with him is the name of his blog and other occasionally crude language. I can't send my parents to read his blog, nor show the The End of Suburbia.

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