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207 comments on Saturday Open Thread and News Dump

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Fletcher on March 11, 2006 - 12:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Comments top
Does anyone have information on average household expenditures for electricity, heating costs and costs for transportation fuels by region - by county would be even better? Also is there comparitive historical information?

WE've had an %18 rate increase in electrical service from Bangor Hydro on top of what I believe is the highest base rates in the U.S.

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odograph on March 11, 2006 - 12:50pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Does this help?

http://www.eia.doe.gov/emeu/recs/contents.html

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PeakPlus on March 12, 2006 - 9:38am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
This is a reply to the following posts:

Religion has had very little influence in the overall development of population numbers.

Human technology has.
Agriculture has.
The Industrial Revolution has.

Please take your anger somewhere else.

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Dan Ur on March 12, 2006 - 9:24pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I have to disargee with you.

While what you mention allow us humans to maintain higher levls of populations.   Uusally the Religious aspect of our lives pushes us to have more kids or fewer kids.  Regilion is a key role player in all this.

ceojr1963@yahoo.com if you want to discuss this further.

As far peak is concermed.  Human faith still plays a part.

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PeakPlus on March 13, 2006 - 2:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I certainly agree that religion plays a role in personal decisions about how many children one has. I will hardly deny that.

But I'm discussing sociological macro-tendencies which might be threatening life on our petri-dish here. There are not very many long lasting examples like sailorman's Netherlands. Even if they are found, one can usually find other reasons for the growth rate dichotomy which have nothing to do with religion: different levels of wealth, different levels of industrialization, education, etc...

Simply put:
Agricultural and underdeveloped industrialized regions/peoples have more kids than hunter/gatherers or complex ind. and informational societies.
Italy is a historically Catholic (known to be opposed to artificial birth control) region but has a birth rate of 1.31, about the lowest in Europe. Germany has about 25million Catholics but has a birth rate of 1.39. Now, you can argue that Catholics in these areas don't even go to church, so can they really be Catholics? But which came first, Industrialization, staying away from Church or having fewer children? They go hand in hand, of course, and offer a chicken and egg problem.

Back to the US: Those having the most children at the moment are not Catholics or Mormons (as the clichee goes) but the Amish.
Again, you can claim that it's religious - I claim it has a halibut lot to do with their agricultural (pre-industrial) lifestyle.

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Don Sailorman on March 13, 2006 - 7:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Hutterite birth rates are much higher than Amish.
Birthrates among urbanized immigrants to U.S. of Catholic ancestry (primarily from Latin America) are much higher than birthrates of non-Catholics, other factors [such as education level] held constant.

Always check data.

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PeakPlus on March 14, 2006 - 7:05am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Obviously, these were supposed to be examples.
Immigrants - I take it these are primarily Hispanics (WITHOUT checking the Data) take a generation or two to change from the lifestyles of their homelands. Demographic processes are very long winded.

The assertions I made above are hardly refuted by your comments, if that was your goal.

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PeakPlus on March 12, 2006 - 10:04am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
All I am saying is we need to address the population issue. Curbing population growth in a humane, fair fashion will be the greatest challenge humanity will ever face.

Quote is from following post.
Curbing population growths will take fifty years to make an effect. Only the third world has a positive population growth rate at the moment. The rest of the world hasn't been positive since the 1970s and most of their populations are still growing. It takes more than a generation to change absolute growth direction. If you want it done faster, you can either use the bomb or let nature do its devastation.
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Dan Ur on March 12, 2006 - 9:40pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
As a Christian I will have to see the paradox.  Nothing is random it only seems that way.  

Though you could say that I make this statement because I know it is  a Paradox. And somehow I am leading you into false logic.

It looks random but it is not.

Might just be my faith.

And yes if a Loved one were to die I would mourn, BUT I would keep on my course.  

Charles,  Aka Dan Ur (a Fictional Charactor is short story series, by Charles Owens.)

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