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116 comments on A gentle cough for the Washington Post

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AlanfromBigEasy on May 22, 2006 - 3:30am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
> Must accept lower living standards.

I disagree with this.  One can higher living standards.

One can have REALLY good software, very high capacity & speed broadband, great tasting food, live in an interesting and beautiful neighborhood, have 5 places to buy food within 6 blocks, a couple of world class restaurants nearby and more within a streetcar ride (streetcars just a couple of blocks away).  Great music easily accessible, interesting people (and architecture) all around.

All for, say, 6 gallons/month and an average of 350 kWh/month in direct consumption.  Most goods can be brought by energy efficient rail and water trabsportation.

I live a higher quality of life than my two brothers, for 1/10th the energy consumed.

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TI on May 22, 2006 - 4:03am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Alan from Big Easy, you count it wrong. It is not only your own direct gasoline and electricity bill that tell how much energy you use. There is also all the infrastructure, all things you buy, all the services you use, all the environment you live in, all energy you use in your job and all the company or organization that provides the job is using, all the energy the administration is using, even all the energy your government is using in the wars you pay for.

But I agree that people can live very happily in a quite low-energy environment. Personal happiness is a diffeent question. But, unfortunately, we know that a sudden drop in energy use and the economic and social disruption connected with it do make people quite unhappy. The problem is mostly the change, not the level, as long as your most basic needs are satisfied.

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AlanfromBigEasy on May 22, 2006 - 8:36am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
> It is not only your own direct gasoline and electricity bill that tell how much energy you use.

I noted this with my remark that rail (we have six Class I railroads*) and water (ocean and barge) can bring all essentials to us in energy efficient ways.  How much and how fast modal shift occurs is still an open question.

Yes, there is the larger question as well for all the "indirect" energy use.

* Union Pacific, CSX, Burlington Northern-Santa Fe, Norfolk-Southern, Canadian National, Kansas City Southern

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Wolfric on May 22, 2006 - 4:05pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You may not be aware, but in order to grow most of the food that you bought in those stores, a whole lot of fossil fuels is needed.  

It will be harder to live in the next 10 years mainly because most of the people have been accustomated to low endosomatic enerfy use.  Growing a garden will be applied first, then permaculture will probably get on rapidly.

Being a Cisco professional (among many other things) I can tell you that powering the whole internet infrastructure takes lot of energy.  Even Google complained about the enery cost of computing last summer.  In order to compute all the stuff they do, they need lots of power.  For that power, the liquid fossil fuels needs to be up and running.

You will probably be able to live good, but you will have to do more that just surfing on the web in order to do so.

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JN2 on May 23, 2006 - 4:50am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You may not be aware, but in order to grow most of the food that you bought in those stores, a whole lot of fossil fuels is needed.

Wolfric, I am sure Alan is very aware of the fossil fuels needed to bring food to the stores. Have you read any of his posts? He is one of the best contributors to TOD...

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Oilrig medic on May 22, 2006 - 5:46am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Alan,
  This is your standard of a quality life. I work three weeks on three off and enjoy traveling all over the place.  I would go crazy staying in one place for an extended period of time.  

Your examples only apply to a few metro areas.  Light rail will not satisfy the transportation demands of the countryside.  So with limited transportation someone in a small town will not have the music and architecture etc.  Fine restaurants are great but how much will a shrimp dinner cost in Idaho five years after peak?

Everyone can't live in NOLA. (but everyone should visit at least once)

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AlanfromBigEasy on May 22, 2006 - 8:13am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
> I would go crazy staying in one place for an extended period of time.

I felt the same way when I lived in Baton Rouge and Houston.  However, New Orleans has enough local diversity and distinct flavors to keep me remarkably satisfied for variety.

> Your examples only apply to a few metro areas.

Unfortunately true.  When in Phoenix, I sometimes wonder what "could have been".  Perhaps a series of medium size towns (~50,000) to large cities (~750,000) arranged in a ring of nodes on the Valley floor with rail connections in between and some "commercial only roads" between.  Each community set up on walkable, people orientated basis around each intercity rail node and an urban circulator rail system.  Human scale, multistory housing for most with community green space (yes irrigated, but limited).  Bicycles quite common, Golf carts more common than automobiles for movement within the local city.  Farm land and undeveloped desert outside each city or town, seperating each one.  Far less pollution than today.  Each city or town could have somewhat different demographics and architecture and resulting individual character.

In Europe, light rail does serve many small towns, but in areas with higher density than some parts of the US.  I could see service between Baton Rouge and New Orleans that served La Place and Gonzales and West Bank service that services a half dozen cities.

We will be VERY past Peak Oil before the US does something comparable.

> Everyone can't live in NOLA

And many want no one to live here.  Destroy the living example of an American alternative.

> (but everyone should visit at least once)

Yes, we need the money !  :-) And one can learn as well "what could be" if one wanders outside Bourbon Street and the Convention Center.

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