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420 comments on DrumBeat: August 2, 2006

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Leanan on August 2, 2006 - 11:12am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Regardless, I observe her behavior, and that of the man behind her, as entirely within our semi-monkey nature.

What do you mean, "semi"?

And who's to say who is being rude in that situation?  What if she hadn't had her blinker on, and he thought she was going straight?  Would he still be annoyed?  

For me, it's a matter of safety.  There's a monster intersection outside my office.  Split-phased, arrows, divided highways, cat-tracks, jug handle, etc.  Many of those who drive through it are commuters.  They drive it every day, and know how it works.  They recognize the timing of the light, and know when it's safe to turn right.

People who aren't used to it find it very intimidating.  They sometimes try to turn right on red, and get nailed by people turning left.  (The split-phasing throws them off.)  If you you're not familiar with an intersection, there's nothing wrong with waiting for the light to turn green.

Most intersections are timed so that that the longest you have to wait is 4 minutes.  (Any longer than that is a safety hazard, because people will try to run the light if they have to wait too long.)  So this guy was having a cow at having to wait at most four minutes.  

   

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odograph on August 2, 2006 - 11:19am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
If we flee into details we miss the central story that much of human behavior is determined by socail norms and non-legislated feedback and enforcement.

Another driving example is the "slower traffic keep right" rule.  Most people follow it, probably out of a "golden rule" instinct.  The few people that violate it are met with honking, flashing headlights, gestures, & etc.

So sure, maybe this was a "special" situation and the guy misjudged.  Maybe the intersection was the factor and not the cell phone.

But in terms of illustrating human nature that doesn't matter.  It was the perception of anti-social behavior that provoked the response.

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Leanan on August 2, 2006 - 11:25am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The human nature I saw illustrated was the incredible impatience and selfishness that is now part of American culture.  Right on red has gone from something you are permitted to do to something you have to do, because hey, the guy behind you wants to shave 30 seconds off his commute.
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odograph on August 2, 2006 - 11:52am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
<shrug>.  The only time I remember hearing honking at such a right turn was on a blank empty street, when there was no question that safety was not an issue.

But hey, this is California, I understand that we honk less anway ;-)

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EngineerAU on August 2, 2006 - 12:03pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Right turn on red also endangers pedestrians, which makes them less likely to walk in the future, which in turn adds another automobile to the traffic nightmare.  I'm amazed at how hostile many drivers are when they see me in the crosswalk with a walk signal.  It's almost as they see my walking as an insult to their decision to drive.
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Leanan on August 2, 2006 - 12:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Nah, you're just in their way.  How dare you delay them for 10 or 20 seconds?
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AlanfromBigEasy on August 2, 2006 - 8:05pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I pciked up two volunteers on Esplanade Aveunue in New Orleans the other night (they got seperated, I have a standing ofer to pick up any volunteers, etc.).

There was a delay in getting both aboard and six cars were stacked up behind.

Both visitors were amazed that there was not one honk from anyone.

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tate423 on August 2, 2006 - 12:26pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
You know I stop and think about this 30 seconds.  It's nieve to say they are shaving only 30 seconds off their time.  You've got to take into account how these 30 seconds can snowball.  First off, going faster usually results in getting their faster.  I don't care if you think otherwise, I drive faster I get places quicker.  It's pretty simple.  Now if I drive faster now I hope to get somewhere quicker, but what if your pay off isn't NOW.  

I've got something similar to this.  It's a left on the highway and if you miss the light when you are suppose to get it you sit for roughly 2.5 minutes.  If you miss that one, whose to say if you had been on that highway 2.5 minutes ago, the traffic would be less and result in a faster commute.  During these 2.5 minutes I wonder how many cars have managed to be added to the highway?  This is cumulative and those first 30 seconds adds to the chance at shaving another 30 and so on.  If some idiot hadn't been typing in 2pt font on their cell, I could have gotten there quicker.

I know I'm too aggressive, but the alternative is gritting my teeth as I watch people not drive.  Here in the STL we were just name in like the top 5 best drivers (not driving because the roads blow bigtime) and I can't figure out why.  NO ONE uses a turn signal ANYWHERE.  Now I hate making blanket statements b/c I realize the fallacy, but on my daily commute I see it everyday.

As aggressive as I am my fiance thinks I'm fair.  I always signal, even before cutting you off.  I know people are out there just darting in front of me if I don't ride your ass so I'm going to ride your ass because all those cars that want those extera 30 seconds adds up when 10 cars manage to fit between me and that car that used to be in front of me.  So I'll cut you off if you're going to slow in the far left lane, but I'll let you know about 2-3 seconds and give you a moment to keep me out.  I think it's fair enough.

My driving is concentrated on the highway so you would think its a simple trip, but when people are constantly failing to use their signal and simply barge into traffic (many times large SUV's) rather than merge.  WTF happened to MERGE or YIELD!?  I really don't enjoy driving at all.  I hate it, I hate traffic and I hate dealing with the idiot people who attempt to jabber on the phone or any other activity besides actually looking ahead.  

On second thought maybe I've just got Intermitent Explosive Disorder and need to be treated.

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fleam on August 2, 2006 - 3:55pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
In the SF Bay Area, right turn on red isn't the rule, it's a rare occurrance. Many intersections are set up to aim unseen high-speed traffic at you randomly, which you can't see due to bushes, trees, walls, etc until it's about 30 ft away. Try turning right on a red and BOOM! It will be your last act. So, waiting for the green to turn right is just good sense.

Also, the driver who thinks about their longetivity signals EVERYWHERE and EVERY TIME. People here are working a minimum of 60 hours a week, stressed out unbelieveably, and you have to think of them as the extreme ADHD cases or simply mentally ill - the mentally ill are generally unable to determine the motives of others, and this translates to driving by their having no idea at all what you're going to do unless you signal. So you signal. Every damn time. From when you leave your parking space, for every turn, lane change, every turn in a parking lot, when leave a space, entering a space, to when you finally return home from your errends and of course have a car or two right on your tail when you're simply trying to get into your own parking space. You signal.

I can't imagine anyone actually likes to drive any more.

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light299 on August 2, 2006 - 9:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
  1. I still like to drive.
  2. Agree with the signaling bit... for me it has become so automatic that I signal when turning most everywhere.
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Seadragon on August 2, 2006 - 8:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I've found that a really loud horn tends to wake these people up...recommend the Hella brand (the name is particularly apt).  Incidentally, those of us who (motor)"cycle" know that a loud horn is an absolute must in traffic.
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fleam on August 3, 2006 - 12:56am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Fiamm's are also good. Made in Italy, sold for Ford trucks, neato el loud-o
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light299 on August 2, 2006 - 9:59pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I like your attitude alot, and mostly agree with it. However, my pet peeve is tailgaters. If you tailgate me I will become agitated and agressive. Perhaps this is mostly because I know there are other drivers on the road with their vehicles barely in control. You know you see them too, playing pinball in the lane, on the cellphone, reading, texting, whatever... point is, I like my space. Otherwise, I totally agree with what you are saying.
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Mad Maxout on August 3, 2006 - 11:31pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
In Chicago changing lanes on a freeway is such that you normally get punished for using turn signals. When you use them the correct way, an idiot will speed up to the spot you're getting ready to occupy.

The solution is to quickly swivelneck to check the blind area you are ready to occupy, give the turn signal one blink as you do an instant lane change! This helps explain why I always drive with my right hand on the wheel and my left free to do the turn signals for the one blink. Becuse I do this instant lane change move, I don't like to drive trucks, becuse swivelnecking doesn't reveal the car in the blind area becuse you're too high up.

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tate423 on August 2, 2006 - 11:25am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
They should have turned right anyway. :)
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Consume More on August 2, 2006 - 12:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
For me, it's a matter of safety.

Then the woman referred to in the article should have hung up her damn phone.  THAT is what annoys me most.

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Leanan on August 2, 2006 - 12:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
In some states, it's illegal to use a cell phone while driving.  Not that people pay any attention.

And most of the laws allow handsfree phones, when those are just as dangerous.  It's the distraction that's dangerous, not having something in your hand.

That said, if you are going to use a cell phone, doing it while stopped at a red light is better than doing it while the car is moving.

Personally, I hate cell phones.  I don't own one, and don't want to.  

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fleam on August 2, 2006 - 3:56pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Same here. I refuse to own one.
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Donal on August 2, 2006 - 9:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I had a couple.  They always cost more then I expected, but what bothered me most was that once I signed up, they acted like they owned me.
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fleam on August 2, 2006 - 9:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
They do. 2X cellfones = about $100 a month, for life. They at least own part of you.
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