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GAIA Host Collective
I like this one:
No kidding!
I always have to laugh at the way the media is reflecting our energy problems... it looks more like a Mexican TV show than a journalism. Arghh I forgot - it's because it is some sort of a show after all. Now that they just discovered that wind requires some (in most cases) fossil powered backup, when will they discover that ethanol is almost an energy loser? Or that hydrogen is a worse energy carrier than electricity in batteries? I'm holding my breath for the next episode... anybody got a popcorn?
There is a solution for everything. Global warming will greatly increase both the intensity and reliability of all winds. 200mph 24x7 and we will still be nowhere close to the reliabilty figures they obtain on Saturn.
Exactly the opposite. The greater winds occur in colder conditions.
"Now that they just discovered that wind requires some (in most cases) fossil powered backup,..."
Eventually the Firsties of the world will have to learn to adapt their lives and livelyhoods to the availability of energy - like they are doing in the up-and-coming second and third worlds (from Leanan's Links above):
----
"I always have to laugh at the way the media is reflecting our energy problems...
I think we are going to see many more such "eureka" moments from the press over the years ahead - probably the same phenomena that happened to most all of us as we researched Peak Energy.
First we/they discover some technology (old or new) as a substitute for fossil fuel sources. Later, "upon further review", we/they discover there are limitations to the pet technology and then realize the "Silver Bullet" is at best a silver BB. The lag time between the two depends on how long it takes people to question their assumptions about their new "discovery."
During the holidays several friends and relatives apparenly just discovered natural gas-powered cars, ethanol and coal gasification ("Hitler Used It in WWII".... yeah, and look how things turned out for hitler ;). They happily reported the "breakthroughs."
They are clearly still in denial and also in an argumentative mode so I just nodded and left the discussion. "Never argue with a fool, people might not know the difference" - or never argue with suckers, there's one born every minute and you'll die of exhaustion.
It's NOT PEAK ENERGY! It's PEAK OIL.
Re: "It's NOT PEAK ENERGY! It's PEAK OIL."
And Natural Gas. Definitely in North America, but we are not far away from peak natural gas elsewhere as well. Our knowledge of what is out there for natural gas is pretty deficient.
Furthermore, climate change says we should not be using coal to substitute for oil and natural gas. This combination of issues gets us pretty close to peak energy.
Uh, "pretty close"?
Yeah, if 2075 is pretty close. Oh brother.
Sorry Hothgar, but peak oil is peak energy - and peak matter.
Errr, peak oil doens't matter.
The end of underpriced energy (in relation to gathering photons in the now and making them work for us) and the effects on the economic system is what the peak is all about.
You really should have ended your post after, "Errr..." - or maybe added an "ah...um..ah... nevermind" to it.
Thanks for your comment. IT has added SO much value here - makes ya look like a sage.
what energy source powers polyannaland ?
Hot air.
I think you misunderstand their situation -- they're ignorant of the ramifications not in denial.
ImSceptical
"I think you misunderstand their situation -- they're ignorant of the ramifications not in denial."
Can I ask a question, ImSceptical? Do the doomers have ANY other response to those who can make distinctions, such as the difference between "oil" and "energy", the difference between "peak" and running out", the difference between the real possibility of "oil" and "gas" peaking, and the assured and apocolyptic destruction of all civilization, between "silver bb's" and real artful and intelligent design, and between "peak oil" and peak incompetence, do the the doomers have any other response other that a knee jerk accusation of "ignorance" and "denial".
Just once try to argue the case on the merits.
I love the story about wind reliability! But put it in perspective...I know of some southern cities several years ago who took the windows of out of city buses because they could not keep the air conditioning running in them. Did anyone decide that air conditioning was to unreliable to be used? Don't the energy police wish it were so...no, they realized there was nothng wrong with air conditioning as a technology, but that they were seriously short of ocmpetent technicians to maintain it.
The constant attacks by many here on anyone with a differing opinion, the fast whipping out of the term "troll", and the belief that there is one belief system and one only risk destroying the usefulness of this forum.
Roger Conner known to you as ThatsItImout
P.S. Motto for the day: It does not take a troll to see the difference, the fundamental, complete and philosophically central difference between peak oil and peak energy.
Funny that you should see our TV "News" sources as an almost comical soap opera or movie that is greatly distanced from reality.
I was just watching this weird video: Who is David Icke and is he right? (warning a long video, approx 45 minutes)
Not that I subscribe to much of what Mr. Icke proposes, but one of his theories is that MSM is nothing but a bunch of well dressed "repeaters" who know nothing and merely repeat the official propaganda line of TPTB. Another of his theories is that MSM is a kind of side-show or distracting movie that the masses are supposed to watch so that they are kept from spotting what is "really going on".
Step Back,
As a former member of the mainstream media, I can tell you that is EXACTLY what is going on. When I proposed an expose on Canadian stock fraud boiler room operations, my editors at CBS told me that they were not interested in stifling business or in negative news.
The evolving state of journalism from the eighties to the present has been a change from investigative journalism, such as we saw during the Watergate era, to one of complicity and so-called "fairness." This rather brilliant ploy by the PTB, calling for "fair and balanced" reporting, played upon American's core need to be fair. This idea is an offshoot of the notion that everyone should get a chance. Before the advent of Republican hegemony, the FCC required that political presentations on TV and radio must air opposing viewpoints through the use of the Fairness in Media Act passed in 1949 and eliminated in 1987. The principal reason for this forced fairness was the simple fact that he who owns the printing press has freedom of speech, all others must beg for air-time. Once that rule was eliminated, the right wing seized upon this basic idea of "fairness" and turned it into a highly effective weapon. Because they were no longer required to supply a credible opposing viewpoint, they would either pit wildly mismatched opponents such Hannity and Colmes, or uses fringe opponents who would appear incredible no matter what they say. By using this execrable technique, the right wing could claim "fair and balanced" coverage while putting on what can only be called a parade of "news" propaganda.
Then the right wing radio shows which made no pretense to fairness, accuracy, or even sanity, simply dumped the opposing voice and launched its loud abrasive voice at the uneducated American and through the big brother technique of shouting a lie often enough and loud enough it permeated the simplistic American's mind as truth. For a great list of outrageous right-wing lies, canards, slurs, and libels, check out: http://www.alternet.org/mediaculture/45983/.
Yes, the masses are not only being diverted by media, they are actively being brainwashed, witness global warming and the legion of Exxon funded "experts" who stepped in to pooh-pooh these alarmists who claim such outrageous science. Look at the hundreds of "think tanks" ( I call them zombie tanks) funded by the right wing to put forth "experts" whose sole job is to dilute the argument. Their job is not actually to win a scientific, economic or social argument, but to inject as much doubt into the argument as possible. They call it muddying the waters. This simple act of diversion enables their coporate sponsors to evade moral responsibility and to continue to profit from the death of the planet.
The reporters I've dealt with in the past ten years are on the whole an earnest group and, despite being cloaked in a mantle of "unbiased objectivity," they are dumb as a sack of hammers. They pride themselves on their unwillingness to research a topic. To be fair to them, the sheer workload heaped upon them often precludes research, but I have not heard a single reporter bemoan this fact. Now, lower level employees are no longer protected by the basic tenets of journalism. They toe the line because journalism jobs are far and few between. And this type of control means very little information dangerous to the PTB manages to percolate to the surface. Combine that with the gnat-sized attention span of the consumer and the media, and you have a wonderfully effective propaganda machine.
I think that the state of American/Soviet media should be obvious to anyone with eyes to see.
On the other hand, the Internet is a fantastic source of info and gaining in strength every day. As an example, I remember the pre-Internet (for me, anyway) 1991 attack on Iraq. I was gung-ho for the good guys (us) and in all likelihood totally ignorant of the actual reality of the conflict. IMO, the Internet is an incredible threat to the MSM.
Internet good short form. Print good long form
I wd bet u 2 scroll long posts
Internet drive out print.
Print good.
Internet sloppy.
Books are here to stay.
I call them "thought tankers".
(The so-called think tanks.)
Their job is to stop people from thinking, to tank the thought process, to shut down the neo cortex in the brain, to activate the reptilian fear factor.
9/11
be afraid
be very afraid
"they" are out there to get "you"
stop thinking and start trusting us, we are the "decider" people, we decide--you inform (on your fellow citizens), we are the most trusted source in a spinning know zone, be fair and off balance -all the time
"Their job is to stop people from thinking, to tank the thought process, to shut down the neo cortex in the brain, to activate the reptilian fear factor."
Agreed, Stepback. Good thread and you hit the nail on the head!
"It is the primary function of the mass media in the United States to mobilize public support for the special interests that dominate the government and private sector." - Noam Chomsky
I think Chomksy did a great job explaining the process in Manufacturing Consent. He contends that the super elite use the media to persuade (brainwash) the 20% of the population considered to be the intellectual class and to distract everyone else. He also explains that the dominant political parties are really just two factions of the same corporate machine. I also think the two majors are mainly tools for the dialectic approach of implementing policy changes and restructuring societal paradigms. The electorate is never expected to think critically on important issues and is given a false sense of choice during elections and opinion polling. Owing to the highly compartmentalized nature of our society, the strategy has worked remarkably well. While Chomsky is a linguist, his observations are consistent with tenets from neuropsychology.
Last year I came across a good example of the level of control corporate interests excercise on the MSM. Robert F. Kennedy Jr. was on the The Daily Show with Jon Stewart when he recounted his frustration of having worked with a major network to put together a news show documenting the link between mercury in vaccinations (thimerosal) and a dramatic rise in autism. Kennedy was called by a network executive right before the show was to air and told that it had been cancelled by higher-ups. Presumably, pharmaceutical interests used their clout to derail the program. Par for the course...
Good point.
The FDA (US "Food" and Drug watchdog agency) never said boo to the whole thing. They are in cahoots with big food and big pharma interests. They are wolves in sheep's garment. They circle about us every day. And yet, "We the Sheeple" keep grazing in happy slumber.
And yet, "We the Sheeple" keep grazing...
"We" --- So YOU are a Sheeple?
Absolutely.
And I have Bahhhd news for you.
You are sheeple too.
You are sheeple too.
Hmmmmm...
Not sure, I am not part of the "elite" but I am not edible either, may be I am just a leftover.
It appears to me that Mr. Icke is absolutely correct.
You should be more faithful to your moniker, ImSceptical. In the UK, we're quite familiar with Mr Icke and know that everything he says has to be taken with a pinch of salt because he is - to put it mildly - stark, staring bonkers. Don't believe me? Read the man's own words (he's not joking!):
By all means associate peak oil with the ravings of such a man. I'm sure the majority of posters here will thank you for it. [/sarcasm]
Don't get me wrong. I agree that much of what Icke says on that tape is a bit past the deep end.
However, some things have the ring of truth to them and that is what is scary.
Firstly, like many of the sheeple, he senses that "something is wrong" but can't quite put his finger on it.
Second, he is able to attract crowds to his message. So something is resonating with them. Crazy as he might be, he is getting his message through. Can we say the same for our "Peak Oil is near" crowd?
Lastly, this business about a "reptilian illuminati" is clearly far fetched. But I think he is touching on something that is real in our society. There are people who play with the reptilian brain stem of the masses by putting fear (terror) into their/our hearts. There are these so-called pundits or minions of the elite that come out of the wood works to do their master's biddings. How do you explain away the existence of CERA or many a shadow organizations of similar ilk?
There is something to Icke's message. It's not all sane. But yet there is something there. Something you can't quite put your finger on. Think of him as the nutty canary in the mine shaft.
Just cause he's nutty doesn't mean we should totally ignore him.
(I bet many of our friends & family think we're "nutty" when we espouse this Peak Oil rubbish.)
Levin;
I think they just left out one modifier. It should have been "Wind power has complications in /Short-term/ reliability." And then they would have been able to discover the important corrolary in the 'new knowledge' that oil and gas turn out to have a complication: /Long-term/ reliability.
There 'ought' to be supplemental supplies that can fill in the gaps when the winds are calm, the sun is down, the grid hiccups and the ice storms come.. but I think at the consumption end, both for residential and manufacturing uses, we could do well to devise systems to 'make hay while the sun shines', so to speak. Just as there are 'smart fridges' that have been designed to precool eutectic (?) salts or coolant stores when the electric rates are lowest already, we may have to similarly find ways to take advantage of the power when it's on at all, either doing the work or storing the energy when it's available.
It might turn out that the current schedules of "Peak Rates" will turn around and you'll be paying the premiums on calm nights, when the power is being artificially generated, and the bargain rates when the 'free supply' is flowing.
Bob Fiske
Demand management has been touted a lot and I am also a cautios optimist, but there is one problem with it - it has not been even demonstrated yet. We are going to need smart meters that follow the changing tarrifs and every user is going to have to install a equipment to manage the devices that can be managed - a tough idea to sell but not impossible of course.
In addition I can not estimate what portion of demand can be actively managed - I think refrigerators and A/C (to some extent) fall into this category but lighting and most industrial processes do not... I'd rather leave the question open until I see some expert evaluations on this. Until then it is simply a good idea, but there are many good, but likely impractical ideas on the line too - my personal best is an electrical car with swappable battery pack. Think of hundreds of battery packs recharged at the gas stations and balancing renewable power at the same time... sounds quite good IMO.
Actually, I suspect that the Mexicans are smarter than you dimwits.
Actually, I suspect that the Mexicans are smarter than you dimwits.