The Upside of Down: Catastrophe, Creativity and the Renewal of Civilization
Posted by Stoneleigh on January 10, 2007 - 11:30am in The Oil Drum: Canada
Topic: Policy/Politics
Tags: climate change, dependency, energy, environment, networks, peak oil, resilience, thermodynamics [list all tags]

Thomas Homer-Dixon has written an interdisciplinary tour-de-force integrating the many challenges facing industrial civilization into an elegant conceptual framework. That framework – catagenesis – applies an understanding of natural cycles of growth, breakdown and renewal to the present and the future of our global society. Our prevailing complacency is based on trust in our science to give us the knowledge, our markets to give us the incentives, our democracy to give us the social resources and our brains to give us the ingenuity necessary to solve our increasingly complex problems. However, that blind trust may be misplaced given the array of tectonic stresses facing our civilization and raising the risk of synchronous failure.

The Thermodynamics of Empire
The thermodynamics of empire is an underlying theme in Homer-Dixon’s discourse, particularly in relation to ancient Rome, although parallels are drawn with the present day. Homer-Dixon has a talent for vividly illustrating his descriptions of Rome’s dominance and subsequent decline with examples from his own travels and experiences – from calculating the land required to support the building of the colosseum to observing the deteriorating quality of the limestone deposits lining a Roman aqueduct in southern Gaul, to discussing the large error margins built into Roman engineering and their consequences for resilience.
Rome’s success depended on its ability to extract energy surpluses, in the form of food, from the imperial territories and concentrate them at the centre, where they enabled the development of a tremendous degree of organizational complexity. However, the EROI of imperial energy tributes declined over time to the point where the complexity of the centre could no longer be maintained without drastic action being taken. That action – an elaborate, highly intrusive and draconian regime of taxation in kind - was taken during the rule of the emperor Diocletian, but its rejuvenation of the empire’s fortunes proved to be temporary as stressors continued to build against an empire declining in resilience as it burned through its own capital – productive farmland and peasantry. Eventually, “the empire could no longer afford the problem of its own existence”. Homer-Dixon argues that industrial civilization may be approaching the exhaustion of its means of supporting its current level of complexity, and that we too may be faced with making adjustments comparable to those made in the fourth century. However, these measures could represent merely a temporary reprieve unless we conceive of different organizational principles addressing our own stressors.
Stressors, Multipliers and Negative Synergy
Homer-Dixon identifies, and discusses at length, five major tectonic stresses – population growth, energy depletion and declining EROI, environmental degradation, climate change and financial instability. In addition, he discusses the effect of two multipliers – the escalating destructive power of small groups and the rising speed and connectivity of our socioeconomic system – and the potential for negative synergy between them. Our management approach to dealing with the problems facing us adds additional layers of complexity to what is arguably already a cumbersome, rigid and dysfunctional governance system declining in resilience. Homer-Dixon argues that delusional optimism and passivity should be replaced with a prospective mind prepared to engage aggressively with a world of risk and uncertainty, in other words that passengers should become drivers.
Connectivity and speed are critical attributes of complex systems and consistent themes throughout The Upside of Down. Both positive and negative effects are demonstrable, although the positive effects have been given far more attention in the media as they have formed a major justification for globalization.
Together, greater connectivity and speed often make economies and societies more resilient to shock because they can respond faster and draw from their larger networks a wider range of skills, resources, capital and goods and services.
The downside to connectivity and speed - neglected in the popular discourse – is well explored here, where it is a key to understanding the potential for synchronous failure. Homer-Dixon illustrates his point dramatically with a near-miss personal experience of traffic moving at high speed and closely enough together for there to be effective connections between the various elements. Failure of one element in such a tightly coupled system can quickly lead to a cascading failure, such as a major highway accident at speed or cascading financial contagion. Where systems are intimately linked, disturbances can propagate over great distances and have potentially devastating impacts that would not have been possible had the components remained isolated. Connectivity can therefore lead to systems which are less resilient instead of better able to tolerate disturbances. Moreover, tight coupling can lead to unanticipated emergent properties, such as feedback loops, requiring complex new management systems with their own attendant costs.
Negative synergy, which Homer-Dixon discusses with reference to an extremely intense fire near San Bernardino, involves a confluence of factors compounding each other’s negative effects. In the case of the fire, people had moved into an edge zone, dead plant material had built up over time as all fires had been suppressed, and a drought had occurred simultaneously with a beetle infestation that had killed many trees. The result was an intense conflagration far larger than would normally be expected – an event much more difficult for an ecosystem to recover from. Homer-Dixon is concerned that we may be facing a confluence of stressors and multipliers capable of triggering a deep collapse event, which we also may have difficulty recovering from.
The Nature of Networks
The nature of networks can have a significant impact on their vulnerability to disruption. Random networks like the US interstate system have loosely connected nodes each with relatively few links, but scale-free networks - the air traffic network, the internet, food distribution systems, electrical grids - have critical hubs linking to many nodes. Damage to an ordinary node usually has little effect, but damage to a hub can cripple a network. Homer-Dixon points out that as scale-free networks develop greater connectivity, new nodes link preferentially to hubs, making them even more dominant and making the network more vulnerable to intentional disruption. Where networks are tightly linked, as in a modern just-in-time economy, failures can jump system boundaries.
Tightly Coupled Socioeconomic Systems and Financial Risk
Homer-Dixon quotes George Soros to say that civilizations fall due to a morbid intensification of their own first principles. In the case of global capitalism, the growth imperative is becoming all-consuming in order to maintain demand as production increases.
Since the 1930s, generations of economic policy makers, especially central bankers, have been acutely aware of the dangers of inadequate demand. The grim lesson of the Great Depression has been seared into their minds: a chronic demand shortfall – and the frightening price deflation that accompanies it – can cripple economies, cause unemployment to skyrocket, and catalyze political extremism.
However, the growth imperative conflicts with the imperative to conserve resources and prevent degradation of the environment. Homer-Dixon argues that economic growth, resource use and environmental damage remain tightly coupled, although economic globalization has helped to conceal the consequences of the growth imperative for rich countries.
The stabilizing negative feedback loops of classical economic theory are, in practice, increasingly giving way to destabilizing positive feedback loops as modern communications technologies have increased the ease and pace of transactions and eliminated distance as a factor. Crises can now spiral out of control before policy makers can respond.
Conventional economic theory suggests that capitalist economies will gravitate toward equilibrium….as changing prices for goods and services balance supply with demand. In actual fact, though, like any complex system a capitalist economy can sometimes exhibit unbalanced and capricious behaviour. Instead of acting like a smoothly functioning and predictable machine… it can act more like the planet’s climate with its synergies, feedbacks, multiple equilibriums and threshold effects. This is what happened in East Asia in mid-1997, when a self-reinforcing feedback of investment, profit, consumption and more investment flipped overnight to a vicious circle of falling investment, failing banks and crashing consumer demand.
Diminishing Marginal Returns to Complexity
According to Tainter, whom Homer-Dixon interviewed for The Upside of Down, people do not stop choosing to institute complex solutions once they hit diminishing marginal returns to complexity because the problems those solutions are designed to address do not go away. They simply become ever more expensive to solve, until merely maintaining the status quo, amid a series of concatenating problems reinforcing each other in unanticipated ways, consumes a greater and greater percentage of a society’s resources. Complex solutions are chosen for their short-term effects without consideration of the longer-term consequences, even when the long-term costs of entrenched solutions can be very high. As more wealth is devoted to old problems, little is left to address new ones, which can lead to generalized dissatisfaction and a loss of legitimacy for the organizing principles of society.
Panarchy
Homer-Dixon’s catagenesis – collapse and renewal – builds on the panarchy theory of ecologist Crawford Holling, who was also interviewed extensively for The Upside of Down. Panarchy - named after Pan, the Greek god of nature – describes adaptive cycles of growth, collapse, regeneration and growth again observed by Holling in his work on forest ecosystems. During the growth phase natural capital is accumulated and growing connectedness helps to maintain stability.
This growth phase can’t go on indefinitely. Holling implies – very much as Tainter argues in his theory – that the forest’s ever-greater connectedness and efficiency eventually produce diminishing returns by reducing its capacity to cope with severe outside shocks. Essentially, the ecosystem becomes less resilient. The forest’s interdependent trees, worms, beetles and the like become so well adapted to a specific range of circumstances – and so well organized as an efficient and productive system - that when a shock pushes the forest far outside that range, it can’t cope. Also, the forest’s high interconnectedness helps any shock travel faster across the ecosystem. And finally, the forest’s high efficiency makes it harder for it to realize its rising potential for novelty. For instance, the extra nutrients that the forest system has accumulated aren’t easily available to new species and ecosystem processes because they’re fully expropriated and controlled by existing plants and animals. Overall, then, the forest ecosystem becomes rigid and brittle. It becomes, as Holling says, “an accident waiting to happen.”
The parallels with social systems are obvious. James Kunstler has described efficiency as “the straightest path to hell” precisely because when resources are used as efficiently as possible, there is no spare capacity to absorb shocks to the system.
Somehow we have to find the middle ground between between dangerous rigidity and catastrophic collapse. In our organizations, social and political systems, and individual lives, we need to create the possibility for what computer programmers and disaster planners call ‘graceful failure’. When a system fails gracefully, damage is limited, and options for recovery are preserved. Also, the part of the system that has been damaged recovers by drawing resources and information from undamaged parts.
According to Holling, adaptive cycles occur at different scales temporally and spatially – from the stream to the forest to the region – and interact each other hierarchically. If cycles at different scales are in different phases, they are able to compensate for each other to some extent and prevent collapse becoming catastrophic. Higher level, slower moving cycles provide stability and resources that can buffer the forest and allow it to recover from collapse more rapidly, while lower level, faster cycles represent a source of novelty and experimentation. The long-term effect of localized collapse – part of the normal process of adaptation and evolution - can be positive as new ecological solutions may evolve and thrive.
Put simply, the catastrophe of collapse allows for the birth of something new. And this cycle of growth, collapse, reorganization, and rebirth allows the forest to adapt over the long term to a constantly changing environment. “The adaptive cycle,” Holling writes, “embraces two opposites: growth and stability on one hand, change and variety on the other.” It’s at once conserving and creative – a characteristic of all highly adaptive systems.
However, where adaptive cycles have become tightly coupled, they can become synchronized – trapped in an extended growth phase together for longer than normal, so that they all peak together and reinforce each other’s eventual collapse. Recovery from the resulting deep collapse can take much longer, or may not be possible at all. The concept is reminiscent of Tainter’s description of group polities evolving together, which effectively enable each other to grow in synchrony for longer than would normally be possible, then collapse simultaneously. Tainter, in his classic work The Collapse of Complex Societies, wrote that the globalized economy of nation states potentially represented just such a system.
Catagenesis
Although acknowledging the possibility of deep collapse, Homer-Dixon holds out hope for catagenesis – renewal through breakdown to a simpler form, followed by the emergence of a novel form of society. He argues that in order to achieve this, we much act to attenuate the tectonic stresses we face in advance so that they will be less likely to result in synchronous failure. We must also loosen the connectivity that binds us into a tightly coupled system in order to build resilience of critical systems like food and energy. There is however, a sharp contrast between resilient systems and efficient systems, in that resilient systems maintain safety margins that look like inefficiency, an example being power grids as they used to be run by engineers as compared with deregulated power grids run by accountants anxious to eliminate all unnecessary spending. Homer-Dixon makes a strong case for the reintroduction of relative self-sufficiency – an important aspect of resilience which has been comprehensively replaced as a guiding philosophy by comparative advantage. However, he expects resistance from vested interests.
Then there are social causes of denial. Probably the most important is the self-interest of powerful groups – corporations, government agencies, lobbyists, religious institutions, unions, non-governmental organizations, and the like – that have vested interests in a particular way of doing things or viewing the world. If outside evidence doesn’t fit their worldview, these groups can cajole, co-opt, or coerce other people to deny this evidence. Some groups, of course, will be much more effective in the effort than others, owing to their enormous political and economic power.
The difficulty is that resilience represents an additional cost, which no one appears prepared to bear, especially as it would place them at a disadvantage in relation to others who took no action. In essence, the problem becomes a tragedy of the commons where resilience - a long-term public good - cannot be maintained in the face of short-term self interest in the exploitation of resources at the maximum rate, whether at the level of the individual, the corporation or the nation state.
And because our leaders hardly ever think about resilience, we keep doing things that make our lives progressively less resilient – we pile on more debt, build tract housing over our finest crop land, develop addictions to distant sources of energy, become so specialized that we can’t take care of ourselves when everyday technologies fail, and fill every nook and cranny of our days with so much junk information and pointless running around that we don’t have time to reflect on what we’re doing or where we’re going.
Recommendation
The Upside of Down is an essential read for anyone interested in understanding the converging stresses of the twenty-first century and the potential implications for our current way of life. Homer-Dixon possesses a rare ability to connect disparate fields of enquiry in a clear, concise and profound manner, and to bring the resulting discussion to life. There are too few books which take a truly interdisciplinary approach and place current issues in their complex context – this is one of the best available.



I'm happy you are talking about Thomas Homer-Dixon. I've read his book Ingenuity Gap two years ago, it was one of the best book I've read on a rarely studied and difficult subject. Truly, a great Canadian intellectual.
This book really is a superb accomplishment. It's so rare to find anyone doing interdisciplinary study at this level, even though the big picture is exactly what we need. Anyone who appreciates Tainter or Diamond will find this a very worthy contribution to the debate.
Thanks for the great review, I'll definitely add it to my wish list..
Cheers,
Gary
I read the book fairly quickly but, honestly, the "upside" is pretty much lost on me. THD has a book review and a rebuttle to that review on his book website. To the extent that he talks about an upside, it just seems unlikely and insignificant. He asserts in his rebuttle that the book isn't a "how-to" guide but, really, why use the word upside then?
I like the guy (saw his presentation in Ottawa last month) and think his book is a great analysis of why we might all be in a lot of trouble. I just wonder, cynically, whether "upside" was used to sell the book.
I just looked at the first chapter. It starts with the description of an unusual, if not completely unique aircraft accident. The man uses it as a show piece. To him the deaths of 111 people are nothing but a clincher to get you reading. Because once you do, he has sold the book in the store. It does not matter what he writes on the remaining 300 pages. He made the money, already.
Truly a great intellectual? Or just a damn smart publisher and a third rate author of books that will collect dust in two years because they have about as much substance as "Get Paid What You are Worth"?
:-)
If you cannot make a constructive contribution to the discussion, please do not contribute at all. Ill-informed mockery does not cast you in a good light.
Mockery of an obviously not very good book that was written for commercial success is simply a form of critique. If you can't stand critique, please don't read my posts. Mr. Homer-Dixon won't care. He's got your money already. He surely won't get mine.
Stoneleigh has posted a thorough and lengthy review, detailing many of the book's concepts. Your breezy dismissal of the book based on one storytelling device doesn't constitute a critique.
I for one would rather see your refutation of the arguments presented in the review (since you don't want to buy the book) than your "mockery", which is of very little value.
Hi Stoneleigh.
Having InfinitePossibillities repsond to one's comment is like stepping in dog poop: You really don't want it there, but you're obliged to deal with it.
I can't read IP's comments without concluding he doesn't comment in good faith. I read his comments as disrupting, misdirecting and discrediting the discourse at TOD, especially to new visitors. I can't figure out why the editors don't ban him, and similar trolls.
Leannan, where are you? You banned OILCEO recently for foul language, and mc about 18 months ago for persistent antisemitic remarks. What about it?
Stoneleigh,
Do you have some previoius relationship with IP?
He was making a constructive contribution. One of the best, since it was so early.
You need to lighten up. You will never last taking that stance. Look at me. I've had cannonballs pass through my abdomen. Ever wonder how I do that?
Mmmmmmn them Columbian sweeties. That is what I'm saying, dude. It is simply not my fault you made those decisions. I like snow. I like the drifts. And I'll hide your shit. I just don't have time to hide mine. I wanna sneak off and drink some rum with my baby. I'm always on the run. Dick Cheney.
If you can't read past the first chapter why do you even post this dribble?
I looked at the first chapter which is the online teaser. After reading that I wouldn't expect to find a serious analysis of anything to follow. If I had seen the book in the store last week and read that chapter, I would have put it down with a smile and walked to the fiction section to see if they have an English translation of Ransmayr's "The Last World". Now that is truly great fiction... (In reality I ended up buying a copy of Mark Twain's "Saint Joan of Arc" which promises a lot of entertainment and insight).
I guess I am simply too much of an engineer with science background to enjoy anything (allegedly) non-fictional that does not burst with data, models and falsifiable/verifiable math. As such I am much more interested in hybrid-sales and solar revenue growth as indicators of changes in consumer behaviour than sociological "analysis" of what is "wrong" with the world. As far as we know nothing is "wrong" with the world in the first place. It simply follows the laws of nature and the reactions we get from it are consequences of our own actions. The reactions are often predictable. The actions are often stupid. So the result of a sociological analysis would have to be that man continues to act stupid. There is nothing new about that. Mark Twain wrote two dozen books on that topic... I bet he would be very amused about PO and GW. And he certainly would write better about it than most anyone does today.
The real question I have (and no doomer has any answers to that) is WHEN will man be FORCED to act rationally by nature? We know that this is inevitable because people can only take so much punishment before they learn and the lessons we are facing will be hard ones. So while doomerism acknowledges that man is stupid, something I will never deny, it neglects that man can also learn. And the fact that we are here at all is my main witness for my case.
I am, by the way, not the first one to criticize the man, as this article shows:
http://www.homerdixon.com/download/Response_to_Gleditsch.pdf
Looks like to me that by the time these masters of sociology will be done with their debates about who made bigger mistakes describing the world, Toyota will have sold approx. 25 million hybrids and the world will get 5% of its energy from solar cells. The OLPC project will have distributed hundreds of millions of Linux devices to children in the developing world and many of these children will know more about computer science than most high school students in the US. What a beautiful world this will be... what a glorious time to be free. Not in Iraq, of course where we will celebrate five million deadths from the raging civil war...
"WHEN will man be FORCED to act rationally by nature?"
I can't imagine why Kipling's poem, "The Gods of the Copybook Headings," hasn't been mentioned on this site before.
I do not fully agree with it, but it is worth having in your brain anyway.
http://www.fourmilab.ch/etexts/www/kipling/gods_copybook_headings/
Chris
Re: why do you even post this dribble?
That would be drivel, not "dribble". When commenting as you have, I believe it is important to get the words right but, on the other hand, "dribble" is indeed close to what you meant ie. as a noun:
As a verb,
However, I do appreciate your intention.
IP,
I am fascinated by the book review. Anything relating thermodynamics to social systems is a hook for me. But to give you a chance to recommend more enlightened alternatives I would be interested in your top ten recommended books.
Please forgive this physicist, but I like to use thermodynamics for what it really was invented for: to predict the properties of thermodynamic systems. It is really great for calculating ICE efficiency and the state of the interior of stars or transport of electrons in semiconductors, but it has absolutely nothing to say about how people behave... unless you can tell me what the free energy of a gas made of people at any given temperature is, of course... Or maybe you would prefer to define the Entropy of the inhabitants of Mexico City (hint: units are J/K)? And what happens to them when the temperature approaches 0K? Hint: the entropy of any system at the zero point of the absolute temperature scale is 0 - it's the third law. But what does that mean? That there is no more social conflict because everyone is frozen stiff and dead? And how comes the system is not reversible once you raise the temperature again to 300K? Dead people stay dead but thermodynamics would expect that the system resumes the same state it had before you cooled it down... that is not how a gas behaves... And anyway, what is the critical exponent of a phase transition, e.g. during a revolution? What is the relevant order parameter? Flying bullets/m^3?
Don't get me wrong, but there has been so much abuse of physical terms by people in other disciplines who did not even take the time to read a simple introductory textbook on the stuff they were abusing that the stack of paper would go from here to the moon and back. Much of what has been written sounds great but the intellectual value of it is less than just questionable. Most of it is pure rubbish.
If you want to learn something about thermodynamics and complexity, you will have to read Haken and Prigogine. And while these gentlemen only talk about lasers, boiling water/oil, surface waves and the likes, at least they derive equations of motion which are formally correct and predict things like laser threshold, mode locking and chaos that is in good agreement with experiments. The other books I would put on my reading list are:
Misner, Thorne, Wheeler: Gravitation.
Weinberg: Gravitation and Cosmology.
Jackson: Electromagnetics.
Kittel: Introduction to Solid State Physics.
Feynman: Lectures.
Landau-Lifshitz: all volumes.
Numerical Recipes in C (Fortran, if you really need to torture yourself).
Any book on Classical Thermodynamics and Statistical Mechanics (they all suck in my opinnion).
Further reading:
ANY book you see in the science section of the university library that you feel like reading.
Regular browsing of Phys. Rev., Phys. Rev. Letters and Rev. Mod. Phys. and any other journal you like.
Once you are done with this stuff, you too will laugh about any attempts to use physics terminology on anything but physics problems.
Now your a physicist , before an engineer, now a expert on aircraft crashes, then an expert on 1930's farming livestyles, and so on.
I still want to see those credentials that I asked for earlier. Not that I will believe them but at least you will be on record with SOMETHING concrete.
Ok. I get your lesson for today. If the temp goes to 0 kelvin then people freeze. Gotcha. I now know thermodynamics. Where is my sheepskin? Whats next on the agenda oh wise guru?
Heres something you can pass along. If you go out on the highway and all you can see is stalled cars and lots of hand waving you can bet that PO has arrived. It doesn't need a formula to figger out.
If you make it to WalMart and the greeter is not there and no flashing lights then you can also be assured that PO has arrived. Again no thermometers or calorimeters are required to measure the heat loss or gain of the dead bodies lying on the floor.
Its not rocket science. Its black sticky stuff in the ground and
when we can't pull it out anymore for whatever reason we are in trouble and yes,,,PO has arrived. For the engineerphyscistagronomistaircraftinspector , you just ran out of time. Your dead.
I am an experimental physicist who works as an engineer. That is so unusual that probably 80% of my fellow experimental physicists do the same. Or is it more like 90%?
I am not an aircraft expert but in my recollection the survivors of Flight 232 had an incredible amount of luck that the aircraft had lost almost all control BUT the engine power steering, that the pilot figured out that he could control the attitude of the aircraft BEFORE it went into an unrecoverable aerodynamic state and that the enormously talented crew managed to use whatever control they had left to land the plane in a somewhat controlled manner. As far as I know this kind of accident typically ends in a call for help and then a crash which takes the lives of all passengers and crew. But what does this accident which claimed the lives of 111 people have to do with ingenuity? And why does what follows in the contents of "The Ingenuity Gap" sound so much like a self-help book? I quote:
"How Are We Changing Our Relationship to the World?
* Careening Into the Future
* Our New World
* The Big I
Two: Do We Need More Ingenuity to Solve the Problems of the Future?
* Complexities
* An Angry Beast
* Glimpsing the Abyss
* Unknown Unknowns
Three: Can We Supply the Ingenuity We Need?
* Brains and Ingenuity
* Ingenuity and Wealth
* Techno-Hubris
* White-Hot Landscapes
Four: What Does the Ingenuity Gap Mean for Our Future?
* Vegas
* Patna"
Does that sound like a book I HAVE to read? Not to me... I am sorry.
"I still want to see those credentials that I asked for earlier. "
PhD in experimental particle physics. That is as much as I will give you. You can believe it or not. It does not matter to either me or reality because I don't have to lie about who I am. I also don't have to tell more. You can judge me by my writing. That is better than to judge me by a piece of paper from a university that sits in one of my folders at home and collects dust.
"Ok. I get your lesson for today. If the temp goes to 0 kelvin then people freeze. Gotcha. I now know thermodynamics. "
It looks like you didn't get it. The problem with applying thermodynamics to anything but thermodynamic systems (of which there are fewer than you think) is that you need something like physical temperature, pressure, magnetic field etc.. These have to be differentiable variables. Then you need a system that has a state that uniquely depends on some of these variables and which, again, is characterized by differentiable functions. In more theoretical terms, the system needs to have a description that is a locally differentiable manifold in a higher dimensional space. Thermodynamic properties are then derived from moving along this manifold, looking at differential forms and non-integrable variables (like entropy). To use terms from classical thermodynamics makes NO SENSE whatsoever if you are missing these ingredients.
"If you go out on the highway and all you can see is stalled cars and lots of hand waving you can bet that PO has arrived."
It does take formulas to figure out how to make engines with higher efficiency to avoid that situation. It does take formulas to build wind turbines and solar cells. Formulas are very helpful if you are trying to figure out how much energy we can use per person in a world with 10 billion people and limited GW. I am sorry, but there is nothing wrong with applying sound science to problem solving. It's actually quite fun.
"Its not rocket science. Its black sticky stuff in the ground and
when we can't pull it out anymore for whatever reason we are in trouble..."
Why do you need to jump to these conclusions? Why can't you say that
"Currently we depend on hydrocarbons too much and we know that we can't do that forever. We need to find other ways to power our cars and other infrastructure. The problem is to find those ways. It is not about running around like headless chickens."
What is wrong with that? Is it too hard to figure out? Is running around like a headless chicken easier? Does it look more attractive? Not in my world.
IP said:
"It looks like you didn't get it."
No it looks like YOU did't get it.
My whole post was a putdown. It was sarcasm. It was lampoon.
The reason I replied in that vein was that I was hoping you would become angry and just not reply to any posts I make in the future.
I really don't need the science lesson either.
Running around like poulet sans tete may be the only thing a scientifically illiterate and innumerate populace is equipped to do by itself. Whether they'll take leadership from a cadre of engineers and physicists (who'll make them feel stupid even while trying to save their bacon) or some variety of demagogue (who'll play on their emotions) is the crucial question.
As a side comment about how lucky Flight 232 was - 'It turned out that one of the passengers on board flight 232 was Dennis Fitch, a United training and check pilot with over 3,000 hours on the DC-10.' Generally, passenger flights do not have expert pilots on hand as a back-up. http://www.airdisaster.com/special/special-ua232.shtml
On the other hand, it is quite customary for the flight crew to ask for any help in an emergency, since when you are about to crash, any possibility to avert it is worth taking.
IP
You are misrepresenting Prigogine.
Prigogine who won the Nobel Prize in chemistry for his work on nonequilibrium cyclic chemical reactions and their bifurcations into new states is also noted for his "universal law of evolution" He had grand ideas connecting life to thermodynamics. You seem to be limited in understanding the possibilities in applying thermodyamic theory.
Good on you, Stoneleigh. This book was on my Christmas wish list, and Santa did not fail me. Nor did Homer-Dixon.
You know, I only found this story because my hand was drawn to the "wrong" tag in a story ("peak oil" tag at the top).
I'd suggest that TOD "push down" TOD:USA and make it a peer of the other groups, and then do a front page with smaller excerps across all sub-categories. Make it more newspaper like.
Arts and Letters Daily has alway been the champ at getting many stories on a page, but maybe you don't need to go to that extreme.
.. but the real reason I post is to add a link, in case anyone missed it, to the Homer-Dixon interview at worldchanging. I think it's pretty good
http://www.worldchanging.com/archives/005131.html
I appreciate there that he does mention limits to prediction:
odo, whose great-grandfather was a streetcar conductor in Victoria, BC
Interestingly, in the interview, he appears to confuse geothermal energy with ground source heatpumps (or 'geoexchange' as the US now calls them).
Of cours GSHPs are a great idea, but they are *not* freedom from the electricity grid (he implies that by not requiring gas, they free the householder from dependence on a centralised system).
A relation in Collingwood has a GSHP and they are great (particularly with the hot summers they have been having) but they are not 'grid independent'.
I often find with the gurus that they get the wrong end of the stick on the detail. Examples include James Lovelock on nuclear/ wind.
IMO anyone who has a heat pump should have a back up - either for the heat or for the electricity required to run the pump. I have a heat pump, although I don't rely on it as it's an older, not very efficient variety that just happened to come with the house. It comsumes an enormous amount of electricity to run - enough that I couldn't run it off my renewable energy system and would therefore not have it during outages. Newer, more efficient ones could probably be run by a renewable energy system, especially if they were heating a modest-sized, well insulated house. However, the most cost-effective back-up IMO would be a good wood stove.
Do you keep a backup for your wood stove, too? I mean... just in case... it could break just when you need it. How about some cow dung? And the backup for that could be to sleep in the stables next to the animals...
Troll.
Inf...
Your comment misses the point. Most people have backup heating, namely fireplaces. If you are using heatpumps (as I now do), you can find yourself going cold in the event of a power outage if you don't have a good backup system, and the power requirements of the heatpumps are high enough that the little honda generator from the tv commercial just isn't going to meet the requirements. You need something with a little more muscle to it.
We put our heatpumps in because the events of the last 18 months have called into question the seemingly unending supply of heating oil. Katrina alone is enough to question reliance on oil/gas, and the concentration of remaining resources in the hands of a few whose trustworthiness is questionable doesn't help matters. Does that make me a doomer? No, I'm just doing a little risk management.
Stoneleigh is correct that if you use a heatpump system, you will almost certainly want to insure you can run it. This isn't rocket science, and it isn't getting back to nature. I've been searching for something to meet this need, and thanks to TOD, I think I've found something that will do it for us.
I am not challenging the wisdom of putting in a backup heating system per se. I am challenging the possibility to provide safety and reliability for all situations in life. My post was humorous in nature but addresses a key issue with doomerism: the failure to trust that some things in society better work or else... and thus are (hopefully) made to work just fine by the utilities. By the time you get down to the problem that you don't have heating and the neighbor does not have heating AND there is no way that the technician can come out and get the thing to work, you are likely to be in more trouble than you ever want to be or that could be mitigated with a wood stove. Because now you are also not likely to have electricity and communications, either. Worse, still, you don't have clean water and the toilet does not flush. If that happens to you on the farm, good for you because you still have a few options left. But if it happens to you in suburbia, or god forbid, in lower Manhattan, you are running into deadly trouble within hours, days at most.
I do understand the need for independence but in a society of 300 million people, half of which live in the city, at least 290 million people will have to depend on ALL services running almost ALL the time and then some. There is no other way. You can ask the people who do simulations of disease control after breakdown of public infrastructure. They will tell you that there is very, very little that can be done to stop disease once an area lacks fresh water and electricity. The best you can do is to send the police in and evacuate. So it does not matter if I have a wood stove or a fireplace because if there is a major problem in my area, I am gone.
I am not talking about home improvement here but about the general problem of what it takes to keep cities running. The professionals know that first responder education and well maintained services are the only things that matter. Self-help is very limited in its scope. I live in an earthquake zone and of course I have the water, food, flash light, gas stove and other utensils at hand. But these are feelgood measures, at best. They won't help because thousands of dying people will be trapped in buildings and I might be on of them. The gas lines will set the city on fire, despite the shut-off valves and there will be little if any water to extinguish the fires. What would help is much tougher building codes to make sure that less buildings collapse and few if any people get killed. But that is so expensive that we won't see it happening until the next event.
Take Katrina as an example. What would have been more effective? To give every citizen a life-boat and vest or to fix the levies? What would have been cheaper?
Sorry, but I am simply not a firm believer in private preparation for catastrophies. Of course, if I had lived in the US all my life, I might not be a firm believer in federal and state solutions, either.
IP,
Anyone who can make the statement:
"I am challenging the possibility to provide safety and reliability for all situations in life."
has the maturity of a 12 year old. Aside from being a straw man, it indicates that you have little experience with the real world where no one, no where has every possible contingency covered even under the present circumstances.
One of the hallmarks of an adult is the ability to recognize that life entails risk. For example, I live a very rural area. If I have a heart attack, I will probably die before any one can reach me. Further, if I am snowed in (and I have been for up to a few weeks), it is unlikely that anyone will even try.
As someone who is a realist, I have spent a lot of time (obviously more than you) considering how the future might unfold. In the process I have also spent a lot of money to manage impacts that could adversly affect my life. Having done this, I know far more than you about the limitations of preparedness.
Why don't you take a few years off from TOD to mature.
Todd; a Realist
You are making my point. Part of being mature is to acknowledge that there are risks in living. When I hear people on TOD discussing the wood burning stove, yet again, I have to ask myself: wouldn't they be better off joining a blog about "Better Living Grandpa Style"? What could even be remotely interesting about a wood burning stove when we are discussing how to get a hundred million people to work every day on half or one third the energy budget? How will wood burning stoves help to accomplish that?
And just in case, how would all these people who talk about "contingency" live on after seeing a hundred million people die in front of their eyes? Are you ready to dig the mass graves? Or isn't all of this talk just a different form of waiting for the Rapture? I don't know. You tell me.
"As someone who is a realist, I have spent a lot of time (obviously more than you) considering how the future might unfold."
I guess rather than to play out all "possible" scenarios, I am spending time on trying to figure out how I want the future to unfold and what I can do to help make it that way. That I won't exactly get what I want does not matter, as long as I get something sufficiently similar to what I want. That is called engineering. You never know exactly what the final design will look like, but you know that it will fly when it is supposed to.
"Why don't you take a few years off from TOD to mature."
I did not know that TOD stood for "Waiting for the world to collapse blog". Did someone here change the topic while I was away?