The Oil Drum

3 comments on The Round-Up: January 18th 2007

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HeIsSoFly on January 18, 2007 - 6:41pm

Hi, just posted this at TOD, it's only right to do it here too. I know double posts are not that great, but some issues trump etiquette. And I think it's wake up time for Canada.

JoulesBurn posted a link to a CP story:

U.S. Oil Industry Urge Canadian Oilsands Execs to Step It Up

My response below.

I'd really like to know, but don't have the numbers:
1/ the EROI for syngas
2/ the influence of 1/ on the EROI for oilsands

That's great.

The more pressure for faster development, the sooner the whole thing will self destruct.

There was an initiative for syngas power announced this week, people are too nervous about nuclear. $1.5-billion plant would supply oil sands

See more over at TOD Canada.. The Ontario Teachers Pension Fund is 50% owner, nice way to retire: over the destruction of your own country. What's wrong with you people?

Now, the net energy return on oil sands is already scraping along the zero line, while using relatively easy and cheap natural gas.

Anybody want to take an estimated guesstimate at what happens to the net energy, or EROI, when the feed has to come from syngas?

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Stoneleigh on January 18, 2007 - 7:06pm

I don't object to double posts at all, especially when they serve to connect discussions going on at two branches of TOD. The issue is an important one and I agree that Canadians should be discussing it.

Something similar is planned for the arctic, also to serve the tar sands (article from early 2006):

Proposed Mackenzie Valley pipeline spurs Arctic coal gasification mega-plan

A proposed Mackenzie Valley natural gas pipeline is still before the regulators and it's already creating massive new plans for industrial development in the Arctic.

Vancouver-based West Hawk Development (TSXV:WHD) has unveiled plans to strip-mine extensive coal reserves along the Mackenzie River and begin building $2 billion worth of coal gasification plants to tie into the pipeline within four years.

"It's a property we're feeling very comfortable with in terms of generating natural gas from coal," West Hawk president Mark Hart said Monday.

Earlier this month, West Hawk announced it had bought about 1,100 square kilometres of leases in three areas of the Northwest Territories estimated to contain 2.1 billion tonnes of coal. Two of those are near Tulita, a tiny Dene community on the Mackenzie just west of Great Bear Lake.

Hart said the coal could be barged to market along the Mackenzie River. But gasification - turning the coal through heat and pressure into synthetic natural gas - is West Hawk's priority.

I'd be very interested in knowing the EROEI of the process as well.

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Syntec on January 22, 2007 - 7:16pm

The reaction in Canada since the story aired on CBC has been considerable to say the least and although most responses did nothing more than 'demonize' the US -blame, if there really is any to assign- rests squarely on the shoulders of Albertans not Americans.

Zone Libre has produced a special report for Radio Canada that can be viewed through Energy Bulletin at http://www.energybulletin.net/24984.html

I highly recommend watching the segment (even if one does not speak the language) to at least get a visual sense of what is quietly being refered to as MORDOR.