The Oil Drum

76 comments on More thoughts on ethanol after the State of the Union...what will farmers do, and have they read the research?

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

ANewLand on January 30, 2007 - 2:36pm

We don't demand that other energy systems are self sufficient.

yes we do. If they are to be our primary energy source. We don't bother to make fossil fuels out of fresh vegetables so why make ethanol from coal.

If this is only an energy-conversion scheme as you suggest then why not go straight from coal to gasoline using fischer tropsch synthesis? Why bother to convert diesel to corn and then coal to ethanol? There are so many wasted steps and opportunities for inefficient energy conversion in these schemes.

Once adequate scale exists, it should be possible to construct farm equipment that runs on hydrous ethanol.

Theoretically yes we could build them. But then that assumes a positive eroei, which is questioned by very competent scientists. Regardless and practically an 'adequate scale' can never exist. Not if we hope to motor and eat.

However, in the meantime, any requirement that ethanol facilities use only ethanol for their fuel input is impractical for reasons that have nothing to do with the theoretical utility of the exercise.

Correct. There is no ethanol available and there never will be because these ludicrus schemes will not scale up.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

Jack on January 30, 2007 - 10:27pm

yes we do. If they are to be our primary energy source.

Actually, you are wrong on two counts. No one is claiming that ethanol can or should be our primary energy source and there are a lot of non-oil inputs into finding, producing and refining petroleum products.

The bulk of scientists do seem to claim that ethanol from corn does have a slightly positive energy balance. There is no reason why US corn-based ethanol could not scale to a size adequate to fuel significant portions of its inputs using its outputs.

None of this means that corn-based ethanol isn't a farce at best. The marginal amount of new energy producted is certainly not justified by the environmental damage done in producing it. Further, the plan to produce huge quantities of ethanol distracts from other solutions such as electric vehicles and conservation from higher prices.

I am opposed to the current US corn-based ethanol programs. I am just think that the arguemnt can be better made on these facts and that there is no need to make up new ones.