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263 comments on DrumBeat: February 7, 2007

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Todd on February 7, 2007 - 11:13am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Dave,
I'm one of the old farts here so maybe I have more of an historical perspective than you. You DO have to define what you mean by "technology." There was no household electricity when my parents were kids in a large city. There was no radio. They had ice boxes not refigerators. No one had cars. There were no computers, etc. I have farming friends in Delaware whose families didn't get electricty until the '50s and who still farmed with horses at that time (They were just plain farmers not Amish.). Clearly, the technology at that time was at a far lower level than today. But, inspite of this low level, we are here to discuss these issues.

Perhaps, what you asking is what level of technology is required to maintain the present day consumer society.

Todd

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fleam on February 7, 2007 - 4:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I grew up in the 1970s. We started out middle class but my parents screwed up. We had a phone, rotary dial, sometimes - when we could pay the bill. We had one light bulb per room. Washing was at the laundromat, and at times when quarters were scarce, done on ye olde washboard. We lived in (rented) houses that were built in the 1930s. Welfare and food stamps were the order of the day - the local markets were not allowed to give cash change for food stamps, so they came up with various scrip systems. Each store had its own, from plastic coins of various colors and denominations to just scribbles on the reciept.

The whole mode of life had a very 1930s feel to it. You wanted to go somewhere, you walked or took the bus. On school mornings your teachers would be there with you - they paid a quarter as adults, we kids paid a dime.

I often fished and foraged for food.

The whole mode of life was 1930s-ish, and this was in the 1970s, a time when the US was doing well.

My young adult years, 1980-1986 were likewise more 1930s-ish than not, more bus riding, living in a rooming house, had a bicycle I went all over on for a while. No real job prospects past the most basic work. Work for me meant getting dirty and smelling bad and the first thing was to wash up and clean up after work.

Entertainment was the library, ridin' around on the bike, no museums because they cost, and I often, riding home from work very hungry, got the vegetarian chili at the health food cafe because the kind with meat in it cost a buck more. (In all fairness, the veggie stuff had TVP in it and plenty of lentils, it was probably better.)

This was life when the US was doing well, we're in for a rough ride folks.

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Agric on February 7, 2007 - 8:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Good and concise response, Fleam. Could be we are far enough removed from that reality now to make an important difference, not for the good. It feels so in UK, more so in the bits of USA I know. Could be your relative disadvantage before will give you some advantage henceforth, I dunno. But I do expect 80% of US households to be facing borderline economic (and subsequently real) survival within 5 years.

Rough? I have a nasty feeling most have no idea what even mildly rough feels like. Honestly have no idea how people will react.

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fleam on February 8, 2007 - 12:32am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I'm with you Agric, I can't believe it, most white Americans seem to have lived these incredibly easy lives. There seem to be actually very few who have experienced actual malnutrition (not the "fat but sick" kind, I mean the ribs sticking out kind) or been where there are almost NO jobs, and what jobs there are, are monopolized by other groups with the blessing of the laws, at least how they're locally interpreted, and in the case of some laws, flat-out put them at a disadvantage - often their wealth* insulates them from the brutal everyday world I and I guess a mostly stifled stratum have seen though.

*Wealth - defined by, if your parents can afford to let you live in their garage, they HAVE a garage, and let you eat their table scraps while you attend the local college, that's enough wealth to catapult you into a degree and the gravy train that follows after. This does not sound very wealthy, but it's infinately wealthy compared to sink-or-swim-by-late-teens beginning many Americans have. People from other countries are generally appalled by the way many American kids are kicked out of the nest to fly or not-fly. If you want to look up another culture like the US's, look up a people known as the Iks.

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