< China's liquid fuels futureThe Oil DrumDrumBeat: February 20, 2007>

108 comments on JHK: "The ethanol craze means that we're going to burn up the Midwest's last six inches of topsoil in our gas-tanks."

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Todd on February 19, 2007 - 9:59pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Donal,

I really appreciated the A. Mag link! I have been interested in intentional communities for close to 40 years and have bookshelves devoted to this.

I've also been able to observe "local" communities try to walk the talk and go up inflames. And, I think this is the real take home: Even when people have a shared, shall I call it dream, reality, personal relationships and economics cannot be avoided. FWIW, one of my favorite book is Getting Back Together by Robert Houriet, 1971, pre-ISBN.

What I find important is that, essentially, homogeneous groups couldn't pull it off over a long period of time. Therefore, why does anyone anticipate a transition to a lower energy society to proceed "smoothly" when it involves millions of disparate people?

The soil will be destroyed at an accelerating rate. No one will care...and few will change their energy usage until it is too late.

I have to say that I would probably have more faith in the future had I not spent years considering the past.

Todd; a Realist

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abelardlindsay on February 19, 2007 - 11:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I'm curious as to the factors that make the successful communities successful and others fall apart. Certainly we can look at the Mennonite communities in Belize and Paraguay as examples of successful, even prosperous, insular, low-energy self-sufficient agrarian communities. Did anyone see the GlobeTrekker Episode where Justine Shapiro is backpacking through Belize and stumbles upon the Mennonite communities there? It's like a bit of the backwoods mid-west 50 years ago in the middle of Central America. They don't even speak Spanish but some archaic version of German.

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Aniya on February 20, 2007 - 1:32am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hi abelardlindsay,

Thanks for the open nature of your question: "I'm curious as to the factors that make the successful communities successful and others fall apart."

Over on "drumbeat",(http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2290#comment-161453), I posted an idea for another approach, namely, making the place one finds oneself into a "successful community". Just 'cause it really is amazing (what they're doing), and because it's my evening to be brave -
I'd suggest checking it out. In my post, I talk about how to start it, and why (to me) it works.

BTW, I believe you asked me a question some time back (in a reply to a post of mine), and I answered much later - don't know if you saw it. If you'd like, please email me and I'll take the time to look it up. (I'd do it right now, but the second I get off the "compose" page, I seem to lose everything I've written.)

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Liz on February 20, 2007 - 3:31am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Creating a Life Together, by Earthhaven resident Diana Leafe Christian, has a great chapter on just what distinguishes successful from unsuccessful communities. Unfortunately, my copy's loaned out, so I can't give a synopsis, but anyone seriously interested in building a community would be well served by reading it.

Publisher's blurb:

Creating a Life Together is the only resource available that provides step-by-step practical information distilled from numerous firsthand sources on how to establish an intentional community. It deals in depth with structural, interpersonal and leadership issues, decision-making methods, vision statements, and the development of a legal structure, as well as profiling well-established model communities. This exhaustive guide includes excellent sample documents among its wealth of resources.

Diana Leafe Christian is the editor of Communities magazine and has contributed to Body & Soul, Yoga Journal, and Shaman's Drum, among others. She is a popular public speaker and workshop leader on forming intentional communities, and has been interviewed about the subject on NPR. She is a member of an intentional community in North Carolina.

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liferaft on February 20, 2007 - 11:46am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

My wife and I have been researching intentional communities and we found Creating a Life Together as the best source regarding the practical problems of ICs. The bad news is that, according to Diana, something like 90% of ICs fail. Based on our experience with ICs and our research, we've decided to take a different path to building community.

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wimsey on February 20, 2007 - 1:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The whole IC dynamic will change if energy gets very expensive or is rationed/unavailable. One of the main points of the November Washington Post Earthaven profile is how cheap energy allows us to avoid dealing with each other. Most people take advantage of this freedom as much as possible. Some of us dabble with ICs while it is fun and novel but we have the option of going back to mainstream living if we wish. It is not too difficult to envision a future where it is easier to work out your differences with your community than it is to pick up and move on.

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liferaft on February 21, 2007 - 11:35am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I agree that expensive energy will reduce mobility, but I don't believe any significant portion of Americans will live in ICs. Apart from long standing cultural conditioning, I believe there's a self-selected genetic component to America's peculiar focus on individuality, read Peter Whybrow, M.D.'s American Mania: When More Is Not Enough.

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BrianT on February 21, 2007 - 7:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Life: I can't resist these quizzes. I got a 2- he says I am too laid back.

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SolarDude on February 20, 2007 - 10:23pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The Mennonites in Belize have high birth rates and suffer from the same problem as the Amish in America. They are running out of land to farm and the farms they have keep getting divided up smaller and smaller. So, no they are not an example of a successful self-sufficient agrarian community. They are headed for a population crash and dieoff just like everyone else.

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