167 comments on DrumBeat: February 22, 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
167 comments on DrumBeat: February 22, 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- Thanksgiving Open Campfire Thread
- How Relocalization Worked
- How to Set Up and Run a Bicycle Repair Company
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“Considering the many productive uses of petroleum, burning it for fuel is like burning a Picasso for heat.”
—Big Oil Executive
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.
GAIA Host Collective
I agree. That was one of the interesting things about what Richard Rainwater is doing. He is basically increasing his ability to grow his own food and integrating himself into small town life in the Carolinas.
I was just trying to edit the post, but got an access denied return. You were faster.
What I tried to write is that first, ELP is the best advice out there, and I don't at all mean to criticize, and second, that maybe we can slip in a C for community into the model.
I have suggested before adding an H for humanize, for two reasons. First, many things currently done using fossil fuels are likely to be done by humans in the future. As it takes time to learn the necessary skills, one would do well to begin now. Second, as you say above, human relationships are going to be critically important to getting by with less. As human relationships also take time to cultivate, beginning now would be a good idea from that point of view as well.
HELP
Seems appropriate.
:-)
As I once wrote in a private email to Jeffrey, (back before the TOD comments sections got a much needed enema)I am only 2/3 on board with ELP. My path is EMP. Instead of localizing, I am mobilizing. My issue with localizing is that the next several decades are going to be roiled with not only PO but upheavals in politics and climate. A place that will be excellent in 2015 might be a hell hole in 2020. If one is tied to land, what do you do when the multiyear drought comes?
Throughout history many people have been nomads. Portable wealth and portable skills are another path to survival.
"Throughout history many people have been nomads. Portable wealth and portable skills are another path to survival."
Nomadism is totally not about individuals with "portable wealth and portable skills". Nomadism is tribal and hyper-conservative.
It seems to me that the last thing you want to be when
TSHTF is a stranger in town. You want to be a well-known, trusted local. Someone that people can trust not to just move on when the going gets a bit rough. That's just one step removed from an opportunistic parasite.
Not saying that being mobile isn't a plausible individual survival strategy, but please don't dignify it with the term "nomad".
Some of us are in special circumstances. Traditionally persecuted minorities (religious, ethnic, sexual) do not have a homeland anywhere. However modern outcasts have a archipelago of ghettos to shift through. At the present time, Jews have Israel, but managed to survive for several centuries prior by keeping on the move. If one is a gypsy (Rom) or in a same sex marriage, conditions haven't changed at all. Economic crisis will make traditional scapegoats more vunerable.
The trick is to learn to sense the coming pogrom or witch burning before it starts and pack quickly. I smelled the torches and pitchforks during the 2004 US election campaign, and fled to New Zealand PDQ. As far as mobility goes, a sailboat with a stash of bullion or similar classic lightweight trade goods (loose diamonds, pearls) will take one a lot of places even when the planes are grounded.
MH,
On the one hand, your points are well taken. But my point would be along the lines that the Jews did not survive as individuals, but rather as a very communal entity. Ditto Rom, gays, blacks, etc.
Point being, whether your community is fixed or "nomadic", it seems to me that you clearly want to be a part of a community.
Unless your only goal is individual survival, but that's a whole different story. And if the people you are with sense that your game is your own individual survival, vs. the survival of the community, whatever it may be, well, good luck to you.
Actually, there are problems for a mobile survivor, but they are more of an internal nature. It is the 21st (Sky TV) century almost everywhere, and communitites are rather loose and ephemeral. When the chips are down, people will take care of their immediate family above all else. Cousin John or the old lady next door are low on the list of priorities.
The problem is likely to be the problem faced by the Europeans with resources and foresight who fled Europe in the 1930s. They survived, and prospered, while most of their old friends and neighbors died. No matter how comfortable, many of these folks were haunted by what is called "survivor guilt" for the rest of their days. For many people it might actually be preferable to stay in place wherever they are and suffer the same fate as their friends, even unto death. For my part, I have chosen to risk suvivor guilt.
As much as I like your mobility idea, I can imagine restrictions to travel. Toward maintaining the political and territorial integrity of nation states, I could imagine some kind of system which would specify where you belong and do not belong. This could morph into an actual breakup of large nations like the US into regional centers which might develop their own cultural identities and hostilities to outsiders. Traveling could end up being very hazardous subjecting the traveler to robbery.
I do not pretend to be an expert. I just suspect that much of what we count on, one being freedom of movement, could end up being a scarcity.
consider the dinosaurs, the survivors are the smaller - more mobile ones (i.e. birds).
Humanize can mean a zillion different things, though, you'd spent half an hour just explaining which one you mean. Fro some people it can mean the opposite of what it is to you.
The idea is good, the word is not. Adopt advertising tactics: fast and furious. 10 words or less shpuld convey the message. WT has that down for ELP.
Stoneleigh -
I had been thinking about exactly the same thing - adding an "H" to make HELP.
I was inspired by the song "Rehumanize Yourself" by the Police:
"I work all day in a factory
Building a machine that's not for me
There must be a reason that I can't see
You got to humanize yourself...
Rehumanize yourself
Rehumanize yourself"
etc etc
- from their album "Ghost in the Machine"
I agree with the community part - I think it is perhaps the essential part.
I'm frustrated of late with my attempts to implement the things I know I need to do. It's not that we've made no progress, but not enough, and I feel I'm running out of time. The problem is the job treadmill I'm on now - I'm working more and more at a job I know is not going to last, just so I can maintain the pay and benefits (i.e. health insurance) a bit longer. I'm left with not enough time to make the preparations I know I should be making. I can only imagine how I'll feel if I get burned by the very things I expected to happen but failed to take appropriate action.
It's not easy to get off the ride though - the timing is the hard part. But it's becoming more and more obvious that the job is a losing proposition. I've got plans for another way to support my family, and I've got to get moving - I just hope there is time.
We were a community before Katrina in New Orleans (dysfunctional for sure, but a community). Post-Katrina we have become a much tighter community, and more functional. EVERYONE not flat on their back (and many that are) is doing SOMETHING to help. We each search and find some need to fill.
See my to do list today below.
Best Hopes,
Alan
My recent favorite bumper sticker "New Orleans - We put the Fun into Funeral"
That's what I meant
Did see you list earlier, too. Impressive.
Jeffrey,
Your comments on Richard Rainwater on interesting. I would imagine a billionaire would have trouble integrating into a small community. Kinda like the nice gorilla that asks if it is OK to sit on the sofa. "Sure, You betcha! Can I get you banana? How about a bunch of bananas?" The power and wealth differential is huge. I can't imagine how it would work in the long run.
But I wish him well. If you are accurate, he is on the right track. Money will not inoculate us.
I imagine your sources are personal; if there is a link, can you provide it.
It reminds me of one of early TOD'ers (2005) who moved on. Was it Bubba? He recounted a party he attended by VERY wealthy people. He told them about Peak Oil. They hardly blinked. They wanted to know how to make money from it and clearly were planning to buy their way out of any trouble it might bring.
The Rainwater article in Fortune (December, 2005):
http://www.energybulletin.net/11695.html