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32 comments on UK Government: "energy security and climate change"
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32 comments on UK Government: "energy security and climate change"
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Chris - I was wondering if you or any other UK based TODers saw the Channel Four documentary last night titled "The Great Global Warming Swindle". This was amazingly one sided and biased, but not entirely devoid of credibility.
It basically discussed in some pretty unclear terms the roll of solar activity and in particular magentic field in deflecting cosmic rays, linked to cloud formation here on Earth.
I got a pile of other stuff to do so will cut this short - in short I think we should all be concerned that the Earth was heading into a natural warming phase and that the greenhouse effect may greatly exasperate this problem. The C4 program was basically saying CO2 and greenhouse effect does not exist and all current warming can be explained by natural processes.
Let me guess, at least five of these 26 "scientists" were quoted:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_warming_skeptic
Channel 4 should be ashamed for giving these people oxygen. They are little better than the "scientists" who defended Big Tobacco. In fact, some climate change denialists were previously employed to defend tobacco. Fred Singer for one:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fred_Singer#Publication_on_health_effects_o...
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled-carl-wuns...
I did and I was very disappointed with Channel 4 for showing it. 80% of it was a load of rubbish in my opinion.
There was some interesting bits, however it was full of half truths used to make incorrect points - how can they (quite rightly, see my article below) criticise Gore for not mention the lag (CO2 lags temperature in the paleoclimate) but then not explain how the paleoclimate really worked? See my article for explanation of paleoclimate here.
Only ignorant people or people trying to make the right point for the wrong reason (Gore) say the paleoclimate was driven by CO2 - no climate scientist worth his salt will say that.
I loved the way they described rotting leaves as a source of CO2, without mentioning the growth of leaves as a sink! There are too many stupid bits like that in this programme to take it seriously. Solar variation has been considered by the IPCC – and there simply hasn’t been the change to explain the last 30 years of warming.
Also – the tone of the programme was very cornucopian, industrial growth is good – no consideration for sustainability or resource limitations, no consideration of increased acidity of the seas due to increased CO2.
Well I thought it was good.
Finally a voice of dissent. I've pretty much given up on the BBC due to their insistance of reporting GW as a fact and not a theory. Now that's lazy tabloid journalism.
With as many experts in fields as was presented (plus no doubt many more who declined to appear on TV for fear of loss of funding/acceptance) puts significant doubt into just how much science is in this process and how much politics has interfered.
Why would I trust a bunch of individuals (IPCC) that I already do not trust to tell me whether or not I am affecting the climate when I know fine well that they're (UK government) already looking for a way to increase taxation and reduce mobility.
If I thought this was just about science then I'd be more agnostic on the whole thing.
But the politicalisation of the whole thing stinks. That and the inherantly redisributive policies that go along with such things as "carbon rationing/carbon trading" just raise my suspicions that the bandwagon has indeed been hijacked by the failed socialists of yesteryear.
Green. Its the new red. And I don't like it one bit.
Andy
andytk, I take it that you believe peak oil/gas is nigh but anthropogenic climate change is nonsense?
A very odd set of beliefs given that the mainstream now accepts AGW as fact but PO is viewed as some sort of doomsday cult.
He refuses to believe anything anybody else does.
Yup thats pretty much it. Peak oil is but a technical challenge.
Andy
I saw it. My intiial reaction when viewing it was how absolutely plausible it seeemd to blame GW on solar activity and (ack of cloud cover. I would think it left many thousands of people feeling a lot better about global warming...
As usual, with all these things, there is no middle ground. I am sue that solar activity and cloud cover have a (substantial) part to play in GW, but I am equally sure that man-made greenhouse gas (not just CO2 which is what they focused on in the programme) is playing a critical marginal role.
It also really annoys me that the attribution of "man-made greenhouse gas" is limited to our use of fossil fuels. If the human population were not 6.5 billion, there would be far fewer methane-emitting cattle, sheep, pigs, chickens, etc and far more CO2 consuming rain-forest. The net aggregate of those emissions must also be seen to be man-made.
I could rant on... but I won't
It also really annoys me that the attribution of "man-made greenhouse gas" is limited to our use of fossil fuels.
Who is limiting the attribution to exclude non-fossil sources of greenhouses gases? Organizations like the EPA, IEA, UN, World Bank and IPCC have done extensive analyses of non-fossil impacts. This chart indicates that agriculture, waste disposal and deforestation account for 35% of global greenhouse gas emissions.
Laurence, I was referring to the TV programme under discussion.
It has made an impact on the people in my office who watched it. "Global Warming debunked" is the general attitude
Everyone is always eager to feel better about the state of the world... too bad that a malformed TV program is just a short term palliative. There's such a continuing flood of evidence about the impacts of climate change that what the polluting industries really need is a 24/7 TV channel devoted to countering all of it.
Of course anything that re-inforces the feeling that nothings wrong and the party continues indefinitely is lapped down, just pick up a copy of the Daily Mail.
Unfortunately any programme that features Nigel Lawson trying to convince me of something is dead in the water. If he told me the world was round I would have to seriously investigate the flat earth society.
Thatcher, Lawson and co are the originating culprits of the predicament the UK is now in. New Labour is nothing more than a rebranded Thatcherism. At some point the folly of the last 25 years of unregulated market capitalism will come home to roost with a vengence. With the national silver sold and the UK infrastucture owned by overseas multi nationals the future is looking incresingly bleak.
Its ironic that the 'Iron Ladys' rule has ultimately undermined the national security.
I taped it and watched it this morning. Interesting program. My first reaction was to get very angry over the title. However, listening to the program slowly bought down my blood pressure.
One comment was the program concentrated on CO2 as the sole greenhouse gas, which is not true. Many other gasses (like Methane) are much more potent, but not much discussion has gone into those compared to CO2.
I liked the chart on solar flares. The sun is the biggest influence on temperatures on Earth. However, most astronomers have said that changes in the sun's power output is not significant enough to account for temperature changes.
The decrease in overall temperatures between 1940 and 1980, I would like explained more. The solar flare (in)activity was implied as the culprit for this decrease from the graphs aired on this program seemed to show.
I think the program was more saying man made CO2 didn't affect the atmosphere. It did say that greenhouse affect did exist otherwise the Earth would be uninhabitable (about 1 minute of program), but Man was overstating his own importance. I think I need to see the program several times to pick up points that I have missed the first time round.
It will be shown again on More4 Monday, I think, for those who missed it last night.
The solar flare (in)activity was implied as the culprit for this decrease from the graphs aired on this program seemed to show.
There has been no significant change in solar activity since about 1950. This post and this post from Real Climate have more detailed explanations.
The decrease in temperature 1940-1980 is mostly attributed to an increase in sulphate emissions that outweighed the effects of greenhouses gases during that period. This chart has more detailed information.
thanks
http://www.realclimate.org/index.php/archives/2007/03/swindled-carl-wuns...
Scientist quoted in the show says his work was taken out of context and made to appear that he has exactly the opposite conclusion that he does have.