Notice that the article "Government can't solve energy crisis it created" is counting on the oil sands to save us...as long as the government gets out of the way.

Yikes!!!

Rick

What I find interesting is this:

Cut through the hype and this fact stands out: We have an estimated 112 billion barrels of crude oil reserves in U.S. oil sands and in offshore deposits, mostly in the Gulf of Mexico. That will power 60 million cars and heat 25 million homes over the next 60 years.

Why choose such an arbitrary number as 60 million cars and 25 million homes to come up with 60 years? A better number would be the roughly 21 million barrels per day the US actually uses, which would cut that "60 years" figure down to 15 years. But of course, all of us here know that it's not about reserves, but production and EROEI shouldn't be counted out either. Those last drops are probably useless on a net energy basis.

Just think about how many homes it will heat in South Florida. Seriously, though, in 25 years, heating our homes probably won't be much of a problem even without oil. It's cooling that is the problem.

The, "if only we could get the government to unleash us" crowd always conveniently ignores the global warming consequences of a world dependent upon oil sands, oil tar, and the like. It's still fossl fuels, stupid, and it will take a lot more energy and emissions per final delivered gallon to fuel all those cars and homes.

I live in Michigan. How many degrees warmer do you think it will be in 25 years? Keep in mind that we commonly go down to zero at night.

Rick

That article does not even have the word "degrees" in it. It doesn't answer my question of how many degrees warmer will it be in 25 years?

I understand it will certainly be less than 5.

Rick

well i believe 2-3 degrees average warming is the 'we might have some problems' (sea level rises displacing hundreds of millions) threashold and 6-8 degrees is the 'run for the hills' temperature (at which most of the ecosystems of the world breakdown unless the change happens _very_ slowly)

so if it is warm enough to not worry about the cold at Michigan, i think there may be other problems that need worrying about.

The other thing to note is that global warming is an average but the extremes get more extreme - ie, you could end up with the occasional night at -10.

Perhaps the 60 year figure was chosen because they know this reserve can't be extracted any faster.

Or maybe, it's a way of deflecting the problem onto "someone else". For thirty-somethings (who are probably the target audience), "60 years" means not only will they be well into retirement (or dead), but also their children will be retired.

In other words, "business as usual for us, and our kids"

the statement is completely contradictory "crude oil RESERVES ......offshore DEPOSITS"

It is not white racists who bomb trains in Great Britain. The average young muslim thinks the country should be on sharia law. If there is a very severe oil shortage, who do you think most of the rioters will be? In the US, websites that tell the truth about crime and immigration are labelled hate sites by the SPLC

Bad news sf, they are the ones with the oil.

How well do you think you're attitude will go down when push comes to shove?

Of course Islam needs to grow up and move beyond the dogma of the book; but do you think trying to demonise people for religious stupidity is going to win friends and influence people? Sharia law is unacceptable to those that know better, but first you do HAVE to know better. That takes understanding and engagement.

Come to that, how many muslim friends do you have?

PS not long ago is WAS white religious types who did bomb in the UK. Maybe as a result we look less at the colour and more at the common factor.

Exactly. I remember being evacuated from a university building in London for an IRA bomb scare, and I remember the regular train station bomb threats as well. There was a time in England where it seemed one was 'innocent until proven Irish' because of IRA activity.

The grievances that muslim governments have with the west concern Israel, US troops in Saudi Arabia and US interference with the affairs of various middle eastern nations. Immigration policy is a very minor concern. Don't blame people like me. I recognize that there are intractable cultural and even genetic differences between us. I would not have tried to impose our US values and form of government on Iraq.

Of course white supremacists riot. It is called "soccer game".

Seriously, far right nationalists have bombed, killed and terrorized Europe and the US (¿The Reichstag? ¿Tim McVeigh?) for a long time. And far left nationalists. And far left internationalists. And... Well, you get the idea. Violence is not the monopoly of anyone.

sf, since Muslims are a small minority in UK, they will never be a majority in the parliament. If they riot, it will be dealt with like any other law and order problem. The BNP on the other hand aspires to rule UK and expel non-whites from the country. And they might come to power if there is an economic crisis.

So naturally, they are a bigger concern.

sf:

White racists have done a lot worse than bomb trains in America. They created a terrorist police state that existed in one form or another for nearly 300 years before protests and confrontation began to close it down. The KKK also functioned in America as an anti-Semitic, anti-Catholic, and anti-poor death squad. The anti-racist terrorism of Nat Turner and John Brown was better by far than a white-run caste system that endures generation after generation, only having to murder a few victims here and there per annum because skin color makes for such a pervasive system of control. Don't make our mistake - we're still paying for it.

I would say you are dead on S390. I fear that is what we will slide back into in a few years.

Pickups with EasyRider Rifle Racks will once more be the enforcers. With GOD on their side of course.

The Race issues are papered over in times of plenty.
In times of scarcity, It will come back with a vengence.

Don't have work, don't have money, don't have fuel?

IT's NOT your fault, it's xxxxxxx's fault.
Get the Chains bob...