Fertilizers are the least important input in crop productivity.

You had me going until I got to that line WNC Observer. But at that point I knew you hadn't a fu**ing clue as to what the hell you were talking about. Just try growing corn, or cotton, or soybeans, or wheat without fertilizers and see what kind of yield you get.

Of course water and sunlight is important. But that sure as hell does not mean fertilizer is unimportant. Have you ever heard of Liebig's Law of the Minimum? You cannot grow anything without water, sunlight or the necessary elements in the soil. All of them are important and nothing will grow without them. If you don't have enough nitrogen in the soil, you will not get much of anything. That goes for potassium and phosphate as well.

Of course you could go back to organic farming, or pointed stick planting as they did many years ago. But you would go back to those yields as well. It is with the aid of chemical fertilizers that brought about the green revolution. And if those fertilizers go away, we would only be able to feed a tiny fraction of the people we feed today.

Ron Patterson

I hope everybody will keep in mind that a lot of those jobs dependent on cheap energy are best not done at all.

So how are those people gonna live when they lose those wortthless jobs? Better that they keep getting paid what they are paid and do nothing, than get paid doing what they are doing which is worse than nothing.

Examples? Almost all advertizing. Many manufacturing jobs resulting in worthless crap. A high proportion of office jobs. On and on. Just look around, notice the tons of entropy generation, and ask "did we need to do that?". No.

Worst of all. What really needs to be done ain't being done. What? Start with education and go on and on.

not only do northerly lands have more precipitation, they will also have less evaporation, so salinization will be less of a problem.

Because of the rate of change involved, adequate soil cover will be lacking on much of it.

>Global climate change should open up more northerly, better watered lands for cultivation to replace the arid lands that are running out of water; not only do northerly lands have more precipitation, they will also have less evaporation, so salinization will be less of a problem.

I very much doubt that, because northern regions weather will remain volatile limiting the growing season. There will still be late season cold snaps and early frosts that will inhibit crop yields.

>Oh, and one more little silver lining on a black cloud: increasing CO2 levels will INCREASE crop yields.

CO2 levels are rising in PPM. The small rise in CO2 levels doesn't significantly increase crop yields.

>Or we could all cut beef out of our diet and make up most of the difference right there. It wouldn't even be necesary to all become vegans - just cut out the beef and that will get us most of the way there.

Beef and other livestock can graze on marginal land that isn't suitable for farming. Today livestock are factory farmed because is easier and more economical, bu it doesn't have to operate that way.

>We really need electrified rail (large PV arrays in remote locations could provide the power, if most trains were scheduled to run during the day). Biodiesel could also fuel barges and ships for bulk transport of grains. As for the tractors themselves, the oilseeds could be grown and pressed right on the farm.

1. PV panels are extremely expensive and will become hideous expensive as energy prices soar. Few people understand how much pollution is generated and how much energy is consumed to make PV panels.

2. For Biodiesel farming, please read up on Rudolf Diesel's great biodiesel experiment and why it was abandoned. To the best of my knowledge there has never been a successful large scale farming operation using home-grown biodiesel without subsidation. Yes, I seen the articles about India farmers selling biodiesel. But much of the labor is done with cheap manual labor (pratical slave labor) and they don't consume any of the produced biodiesel for farming operations. They do not operate on a closed cycle. Despite huge diesel shortages in Africa, How come farmers dont simply make thier own biodiesel? Theorically Africa could be a food exporter if only the abandoned there fossil fuels ways! I also hear that there is a Rich Nigerian who wished to deposit a large sum of money in your bank account if you can kindly provide him with your back account information! He made a fortune by using biodiesel for farming!

Personally I am sick of all these wild ideas that people have in their heads that biodiesel, PV panels, Wind, etc are a solution. None of these are practical solutions. Instead of people telling everyone how things could work, how about actually trying it! I would like to see people actually try it for themselves instead of armchair coaching. I doubt anyone here that promotes biodiesel has even tried growing crops and pressing them to make biodiesel.