<DrumBeat: May 17, 2007The Oil DrumDrumBeat: May 18, 2007>

87 comments on The Man Who Wrote the Book on Algal Biodiesel

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kjmclark on May 17, 2007 - 12:26pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Frankly, I doubt we'll keep all the cars running, but I would personally bet more on biobutanol from pyrolysis of something like locust trees. At least we know that those technologies work.

I'd bet on locust because they are fast growing and really don't need nitrogen fertilizer. Locust is a legume that fixes its own nitrogen with bacteria. It's also a very dense wood with a high heat content:
"Nine-year-old stands exhibited the highest usable heat content 483.4 MBtu/ha for whole-tree biomass and 432.8 MBtu/ha for woody biomass." DOE Energy Citations Database.

Burying the charcoal would increase the soil quality further and sequester much of the carbon as well.

That wouldn't save our drive-through society, but it might keep some ambulances and motorcycle cops in business.

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eric blair on May 17, 2007 - 1:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Locust trees give off toxins that make the leaves hard to breakdown by insects, and I think one of the toxin classes will effect other plants also.

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Bryant on May 17, 2007 - 3:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Do you have any links to information on locust toxins? I work with several species, and a couple of genus'of of locust and would be interested.

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eric blair on May 18, 2007 - 9:04am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

http://www.vet.purdue.edu/depts/addl/toxic/plant48.htm

As an example. I noticed how earthworms did not do well under the locust trees and the leaves did not break down. Spend 1/2 a day, found enough other data to say to myself 'stop composting these leaves' then moved on.

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karlnick on May 17, 2007 - 4:47pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

This is a research center for turning wood to gas http://www.chrisgas.com/

Substitute natural gas yields five times more energy per acre than biodiesel from oil plants http://eescopinions.eesc.europa.eu/eescopiniondocument.aspx?language=sv&... section 4.2.1 in the left margin. The link is unfortunately only in swedish but i guess that it is possible to find the document in other languages because it is written in brussel.

One of the most important parameters must be the energy content so i used the following links and calculated the energy content for different crops.
http://www.vedeldning.com/vedeldning.htm http://www.gde-net.se/files/1/87/88/HX81O95Orr3TtQpLUlafUh496GvEq583.pdf swedish links again but i just can't find the numbers in english.
MWh = Mega Watt hour
8-20 MWh/hectare/year Grain
35-44 MWh/hectare/year Energy forest (fast growing trees (salix in swedish) on farmland)
16-26 MWh/hectare/year Forest (i am not sure if forks are included in the volume)

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wimbi on May 17, 2007 - 7:48pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I appreciate all the good work being done in Sweden on biomass.

People in the US have to do a few obvious things- forget about the present absurd transport system with its reliance on private vehicles of sinfully low efficiency; Then forget about the 10kW per person lifestyle in general; Then put the various energy sources where they fit best- for example, biomass for space heating and CHP.

AND

Remember that there are other thermal power devices than diesel and spark IC engines. Then go look up the NASA space power stirling engines and note how long they last and how efficient they are. And then think of what these things could getting their heat from SOLAR ENERGY instead of isotopes.

But, truth to tell, almost no hope here (USA), Maybe Sweden???

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Alfred on May 18, 2007 - 8:21am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I changed language=sv to language=en and it worked fine.

Try
http://eescopinions.eesc.europa.eu/eescopiniondocument.aspx?language=en&...

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wimbi on May 20, 2007 - 9:39am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Very good! I especially like the obvious recommendation that biomass be used for heating, releasing FF for vehicles, instead of wasting time money and energy trying to turn biomass into liquids for vehicles.

This seems SO OBVIOUS that I keep wondering why people on TOD keep talking about all the hocus-pucus of biomass-to- liquids.

So, please tell me why I am wrong about this, ok? If you do, I promise to shut up about it.

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Checkerboard Strangler on May 17, 2007 - 8:21pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Biobutanol is already available at a "barge" (bulk) price of around $3.70 a gallon according to David Ramey's site.
http://www.butanol.com

Gasoline is already above $3.00 and apparently headed for four by peak summer, so assuming it is possible to scale up production with some government sponsored "heavy lifting" (very doubtful!) to convert ethanol production plants it would be sensible to simply load up right now and just go as is. Once gasoline hits four, butanol is a deal, n'est ce pas?
Yes I know it ain't that simple, but I'm waiting to see who pops the balloon now that I've let it fly.

I already chowed down on the 14,000 gallon annual oil consumption figures of the island nation of Saint Vincent and the Grenadines. It would seem to me that an operation capable of producing that much is a no brainer.
For St. Vincent it would be a lifesaver as gasoline is currently NINE dollars a gallon right now.
Straight butanol at the 55 gallon drum price of $6.80 would be a frigging bargain.

I wrote to Ramey about the idea but he hasn't responded.
I'd LOVE to see him guest post here as I think butanol might have real shot...MIGHT being my hope that "other factors" don't step in with the intention of "stepping ON".

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Robert Rapier on May 18, 2007 - 1:36am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Biobutanol is already available at a "barge" (bulk) price of around $3.70 a gallon according to David Ramey's site.

I doubt that this can be bio-butanol, for reasons I will get into in an upcoming post. Probably conventional petrochemical butanol; the kind I used to make.

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Checkerboard Strangler on May 22, 2007 - 1:54am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Mr. Rapier I am thinking it would be great to get Mr. Ramey in on TOD in some capacity for your upcoming article. I don't know about the others but I'd be thrilled to get his input and your assessment of same.

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