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Me too, except for the religion part.
(didn't do the survey).
But think about it - there's a lot of talk about ELP.
Simplify, go local, help each other out, stay out of too much debt.
Who does that describe? The Amish!!
They live like they live because they believe. I am part of a prayer community (Catholic base), and guess what is preached? Well, not the whole ELP spiel, put enough. We help each other out in very practical things too: renovating, moving, family care, FINANCIALLY ...
How the hell are a bunch of atheists going to get together and try changing the world? Don't see it happening, just because everyone only believes what everyone else believes as long as it's convienient.. (Did that make sense?)
AND I only own half a car. (was there a checkbox for that??)
Sharing it with a (atheistic) near neighbor..
Q: "How the hell are a bunch of atheists going to get together and try changing the world?"
A: What do you call this website?!
And that's different from religion how?
Meaning..
I'm here on this site because Peak Oil interests me AS A SUBJECT. Once the subject has changed (might take a few decades), I doubt I'll have much in common with the others in this "community".
I think ("believe" - not "credo") that this (PO) is a real issue. Once the issue is passè (ie no longer convienent), either as an issue or as an interest for my personal situation, then I won't be here any more, just like you won't be here any more.
Again, compare that to a real alternative lifestyle like that of the Amish, who are here to stay..
The Amish lifestyle is not the sustainable dream many believe.
There's a lot of variation, of course, since each community is free to set their own rules. But they are not anti-technology. They just want to remain separate from the "English." So they may have phones, but not in the house. They use propane powered farm equipment and appliances, so they are not connected to the grid (but they are not immune to peak oil, either). Generally, they do not own cars, but they do hire vans to go shopping. Those black garments are often made of polyester. If they get sick, they go to modern doctors and hospitals. They are economically connected with the rest of the world, buying from and selling to the rest of us.
Perhaps most strikingly...they have a lot of kids, and thus are constantly expanding. That is not sustainable.
What the Amish are doing right: they think of the effects technology will have on the community before adopting it. For example, a man may be allowed to own a tractor, if he attaches a horse to it. Why? They fear that a tractor will make a man greedy, encouraging him to buy up his neighbors' lands and forcing them to get tractors, too, to compete. But if a horse has to be hooked to it, the farmer can still only plow so much land in a day.
I think that kind of community orientation is possible without religion. Certainly, religion on its own does not create sustainability. (See mega-churches. So big many have their own public transportation systems.) Why it works for the Amish is that their communities are small. It would work for non-religious small communities, too. (And has. I've posted some stories about hippie communities that have survived and thrived over the past couple of weeks.)
Thank you Leanan for the reply.
I know this thread is probably dead, BUT:
Just wanted to say that I do not think that the Amish have a valid sustainable lifestyle. They only have a consistent ALTERNATIVE lifestyle (my point). It will NOT be the answer to any sort of overshoot.. Their socio-economic fabric, on the other hand, will be strong enough to withstand many peak oils.
I'm not sure I get your punchline.
(the question to a question..)
My question is:
In order to change the world, are atheists going to move together in a "localized" sort of way, which is often proposed on this website, and live closer together in all of its non-anonymous consequenses?
Many of the (atheist) hippies tried doing that in the '70s right? Ok, there were also a number of cult/communies in there too..
The only group that I see consequently living the ELP "doctrine" (smiley) is the Amish..
there are alot of Amish in my area and I eventually will write a story with pictures etc - really a fascinating culture and if the doomers are right then people will be learning some long lost techniques from the Amish. The guy I met was putting in a summer cooler in the side of a hill with some blocks of ice.
On that note however, the child mortality rate is extremely high (almost 50% I am told) Primary reason? Food poisoning, due to poor storage methods...
How the hell are a bunch of religionists who violently disagree going to get together and try changing the world? Sheesh. Your argument is completely backwards.
No.
Your suggestion is misguided, bordering on offensive. Just because someone does not believe a particular story about a supernatural entity or entities does not mean they have no beliefs or morals. There is such a thing, I believe, as common sense - things such as reciprocity (considering how your actions affect others just as they should consider how their actions affect you) are quite natural and need not flow from a desire to fit in or receive reward from a higher authority. I do many things because it's the right thing to do, period, no appeal to higher authority required.
http://coffeeghost.net/2007/05/14/what-one-atheist-believes
"How the hell are a bunch of religionists.."
Well, you're probably right, just because the basic answer from otherworldly religion is, "we're all fried anyway - why bother on tinkering on the details?".
"There is such a thing, I believe, as common sense.."
The only problem is, is that common sense is not very common. Decisions are usually made because of loyalties - and not because it makes sense for the whole of mankind.
"I do many things because it's the right thing to do.."
To whose standards, your own? Refering to "The right thing" is in and of itself calling on a higher authority..
"...does not mean they (atheists) have no beliefs or morals"
No, you're perfectly right. But it does mean that these beliefs and morals are not necessarily those of your fellow man - or of ohter atheist for that matter. Or of the other visiters of TOD. The chances of members of an organized religion to have the same morals and beliefs are, on the other hand, a lot higher.
Your link, your "I believe" list, can hardly be serious. Part of the problem is, I admit, the use of "believe" in the English language. What you really mean is: I feel, I think, I find, My opinion is.. These have nothing to do with belief in anything (credo).
Cheers, Dom