267 comments on DrumBeat: June 24, 2007
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267 comments on DrumBeat: June 24, 2007
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Probably not, because the haves mainly want to spend money only on themselves. Given the choice between self-powered gated communities and public transportation, they'll go with the gated communities.
And what many of these 'rich' people don't seem to get, is the $5000 in aid to "the poor" is better than $30,000 for jail. And a gated community is 'fine' when there is rule of law. If the worst ideas happen as some here think, no gated community will be safe. If there are 'roving mobs' - what gated community will be safe? With some of the people out there being http://www.hare.org/links/saturday.html these kinds of folk...such does not end well.
In the historic gated community, there were no rifles or mortar shells. Today there are.
A gated community will simply be a big advertisement for "get your money and food here!"
If the Alps could not stop Atilla with his herd of elephants no gated 'community' is going to stop those bent on breaching the walls. History is littered with fools that thought stationary defenses would keep out the hordes.
WT hit on the correct solution for the well off that wish to retain their scalps when tshtf...stay low profile and live like the less well off. Living a 'less well off' lifestyle will also allow for the accumulation of more inflation bridges, like gold, instead of spending that discretionary income on the upkeep of a home in a gated community and keeping up appearances. Smart people have known throughout history that what is inside ones home is not obvious by the outside appearance.
Atilla the Hun didn't had any elephants, you are talking about Hannibal who lived few century earlier.
Thanks, but I believe I got my point across.
That you don't actually know history?
A note about living like the have-nots:
Generators can be heard from far away and will be a dead giveaway. Solar panels on the roof or a wind generator in the back yard can be seen from far away and will also be a dead giveaway.
On the other hand, when you get out into the small towns and countryside, poor folks are just as likely as the well-to-do to have woodstoves in their homes; maybe even more likely. There are plenty of poor salt-of-the-earth types that have always gone out into the nearby forests with a chain saw and loaded up their beat up old pickup trucks with firewood, to be piled outside their beat up old houses. Smoke coming out of the chimney of a house that is not obviously the house of a well-to-do person might be visible from far away, but does not convey the same sort of message as the above examples do.
Eric: You might be right, but the gated communities I have seen in Florida have armed guards. Currently private security is a huge and growing business in the USA and I would expect societal breakdown to help it prosper even more. You could even see large concerns like Blackwater taking over protection for larger communities. IMHO, the upper middle class and above will pay top dollar for physical protection (it is worth as least as much money per annum as healthcare).
Eric: You might be right, but the gated communities I have seen in Florida have armed guards.
And if we are at the point where there is to be 'raids' on gated communities, one has to keep in mind the difference between the old and new gated city model.
There was not .308 or .50 cal rifles. The attackers can reach out and touch someone from a long distance. Do these guards want to work when they would lack the 'protection of the state' if they start getting snipped from other urban cover?
And some of the 'members of the lower class' are being trained on how to do this under the idea that the training will result in a chance to move up the ladder.
(Again, - how does this all end well? As a species, we'd better hope that the optimists turn out right.)
Forget the great unwashed, the poor, the benighted.
Forget money sucking mercanaries from Blackwater
Think about the pissed off ex-marines and soldiers.
The legionaires who came home, avoided the mutilation of IEDs, and know how to 'clean and cock', and can lay hands on weapons.
Think Russia 1918, Germany 1921.
Think Spartans and Friekorps.
Type Friekorps into Google or Wiki
Think pissed off, let down, left in the lurch, stabbed in the back.
The USA has the largest number of ex military types in the western world. You cycle more young men and women through the armed forces than any other Western nation. Assume that they did not forget the training when de-mobbed. Assume that going through hell+ returning to a shit job+ subprime mortgage may be considered a bit of a wind-up
All can get legal access to weapons.
Disenfrachised Ex military types + over the counter weapons = civil war.
Last time these conditions occured in Britain, we chopped the head off a King.
That's exactly the sentiments expressed to me by a friend yesterday. He said, "Forget the rednecks, it's those ex marines who are going to have mutiny against their commanders, and then we'll have a bunch of pissed off guys who are practically the dregs, running around in tanks terrorising and killing as they please."
errrr, that is not sounding like 'remind me how this ends well'.
You see that now. There's often resistence to public transportation in wealthy areas because it makes it too easy for "undesirables" to get in.
Gated communities will be extremely vulnerable when TSHTF. For example, just north of the Twin Cities in Minnesota is North Oaks, the "Forbidden City," forbidden because all the roads are privately owned, and anybody except home owners and invited guests are trespassers--who will be prosecuted by the police.
Ah, the police. Where will they go to get loot and good looking women when TSHTF? Recall what many of the New Orleans police did in the aftermath of Katrina . . . . And private security? Give me a break: Those guys will be looting, raping, killing and burning if and when social order breaks down.
When TSHTF, there will be two kinds of people--those organized into armed groups (the masters) and those who are isolated or disarmed--the slaves.
if things get that bad there will be two groups, the dead (most of us) and those who might expect a few more years. No organized society, no spare parts for generators. No cancer treatment, antibiotics or vaccines. No ammunition for the masters; when they run out they will have to hold off the slaves with black powder weapons.
One of the many reasons I do not want to weather the storm of peak oil where I currently live (Alabama).
The culture here leans heavily toward security over liberty.
They would quickly embrace an authoritarian government. (IMHO)
One of the many reasons that I would never move back to northern Louisiana. They will follow the 'war on terror' wherever it leads them even though they are the victims of the terror that their own leaders are spreading. They cannot see it. A typical response is 'the government cannot touch me as long as I have my guns.' They have read no history or they would know that there logic is as a sieve. Our cops have become a paramilitary institutions. They wear all black, the swat teams travel in armored vehicles, they deploy snipers that shoot when they shouldnt, Mayberry is dead as a doornail.
Freebooters in a post peak world :-o FKA Blackwater?
Of course, we are a lot more civilised nowadays and it could never happen again...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Thirty_Years_War#Casualties_and_disease
The devastation caused by the war has long been a subject of controversy among historians. Estimates of civilian casualties of up to thirty percent of the population of Germany are now treated with caution. The mortality rate was perhaps closer to 15 to 20 percent, with deaths due to armed conflict, famine and disease.[citation needed] Much of the destruction of civilian lives and property was caused by the cruelty and greed of mercenary soldiers. It is certain that the war caused serious dislocation to both the economy and population of central Europe, but may have done no more than seriously exacerbate changes that had begun earlier.
The destruction caused by mercenary soldiers defied description (see Schwedentrunk). The war did much to end the age of mercenaries that had begun with the first landsknechts, and ushered in the age of well-disciplined national armies.
And the Swedish Drink: :-o
The Schwedentrunk (English: Swedish drink) is a particularly disgusting and humiliating method of torture and execution. The name was invented by German victims of Swedish troops during the Thirty Years' War. This method of torture was administered by other international troops, mercenaries and marauders, and especially by civilians following the Swedish baggage train, who received no pay. It was used to force peasants or town citizens to hand over hidden money, food, animals, etc., or to extort sex from women.
Even though fifteen to twenty percent (locally up to 60%) of the German population perished due to violence, famine, and disease during the war, the memory of the Schwedentrunk was preserved. The method was immortalized in one of the first widely-read German books, the satirical Der abenteuerliche Simplicissimus published by Hans Jakob Christoffel von Grimmelshausen in 1668.
Den Knecht legten sie gebunden auf die Erd, stecketen ihm ein Sperrholz ins Maul, und schütteten ihm einen Melkkübel voll garstig Mistlachenwasser in Leib, das nenneten sie ein Schwedischen Trunk.
Translated into English,
They lay the bound servant on the ground, stuck a wooden wedge into his mouth, and poured into his belly a bucket full of foul manure water, which they called a Swedish Drink.
Use of the Schwedentrunk is recorded in the histories of towns throughout Southern Germany. Though specific circumstances differed, in every case a restrained and gagged victim was forced to swallow (by means of a funnel) a large amount of unappetizing, sometimes boiling liquid. Substances such as urine, excrement, liquid manure, and sullage were used for this purpose.
And if you really want a fun read, look up the sack of Magdeburg
The Baghdad Green Zone is the ultimate gated community. How long do you think it will be before it is washed away by an avalanche of humanity?
I recently read that people inside the Green Zone are afraid of going out in the evening - in case one of their guards grabs them for hostage!
I also read that they are beginning to have power cuts and water cuts - minor compared to the rest of the country. And that is for a stupendously expensive piece of folly.