![]() | DrumBeat: July 9, 2007 | The Oil Drum | The International Energy Assocation's Medium-Term Oil Market Report | ![]() |
20 comments on Some history on Coal EROI and UK coal numbers
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
20 comments on Some history on Coal EROI and UK coal numbers
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- Thanksgiving Open Campfire Thread
- How Relocalization Worked
- How to Set Up and Run a Bicycle Repair Company
TOD:Europe
- Unique Times -- and the Future
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Friday 27th November 2009
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“The aim of every political constitution is, or ought to be, first to obtain for rulers men who possess most wisdom to discern, and most virtue to pursue, the common good of the society; and in the next place, to take the most effectual precautions for keeping them virtuous whilst they continue to hold their public trust.”
—James Madison, FEDERALIST #57 (1787)
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Nick:
The dramatic license of some of those who have written about historic mining can make it seem much worse than it actually was. Firstly, because of the geothermal gradient, as one mines down to any significant depth the mines became comfortably warm, rather than cold. Secondly since water was (and is) an issue it is drained away so that it does not interfere with most of the mining operations, so that the working area itself was (and is) generally dry. Dim it certainly was, and walking the ways back to the shaft in the dark after my light failed is something I still remember 40-some years later, but there was a lot of cameraderie and a sense of self-worth in those who worked there that should not be forgotten. The problems of coal dust were long neglected, as were other health and safety issues, but the damage done by the dust had little to do with uranium enrichment, somewhere in the back of my mind I seem to recall some early coal roof detection equipment that worked because of the emission from the overlying shale, because the coal didn't have any.
Unfortunately society was more concerned to get cheap energy than to worry about the conditions of those who produced it. As Barbara Freese pointed out their view of the industry and its workers has more often been tinged with comtempt than, for example, the more glamorous view of oil.
One of my great-great grandfather's worked as a coalminer in Pennsylvania in the 1860's. His father died and he left home at 12, because his step-mother had young children and he had to support himself. He was from a large Mennonite family in Pennsylvania. He went to Nebraska in the middle 1870's and homesteaded, lived in a sod house on the prairie near Lincoln.
Life was just plain hard for most people in the world in the 19th century before the fossil fuel age. And it may become hard for us again, but I think its important for people to remember our roots.
EROEI isn't nearly as important as ROI. As long as people can scratch out a living mining coal, its going to be mined, just as oil production is going to continue as long as people think they can make a living at it.
Bob Ebersole
ROI is subordinate to EROEI for primary energy sources. There is no economic value in digging coal, or oil, or Uranium if you cannot get net positive energy from it. That only works for things like batteries where people will pay a premium for the energy in a convenient form.
We never thought much about ROI in energy planning. As Schumacher put it there are two basic commodities - fuel and food. All others are secondary. For fuel and food, short term market prices are a poor guide for long term planning. Overriding importance is attached to secuity of supply.