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245 comments on DrumBeat: August 4, 2007

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totoneila on August 4, 2007 - 4:34pm

Hello TODers,

If I was an expert bat-biologist: I would be going apeshit to quickly setup a North American franchise operation on renewable [biosolar mindset] batshit shelters to help support relocalized permaculture. The ERoEI of batcrap to FF-fertilizers needs to be expertly analyzed, IMO.

Have you priced guano lately? A repost below:

http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2268/158584
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Yesterday's Drumbeat had quite a subthread on organic vs FF farming. Below is a repost of a Jan. 24 posting that got no comments at that time. Could batshelters be the key to drastically raising organic yields?

Hello TODers,

In the recent natgas keythread: I posted again how we should be using natgas to stockpile fertilizer to help us bridge to relocalized permaculture. If this isn't done, I hope, at a minimum, we can go back to the future:

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What would the reader think, if he were asked to invest in a gold mine from which all of the ore had been taken out, and, at the end of a year, it had all replaced itself? What would he think, if he had, attached to his mercantile establishment, a warehouse in which, as fast as the goods were removed for display and sale, they would replace themselves without the expenditure on his part of one grain of energy or one cent in money!
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EDIT: to make link below activated [Please see photos!]

http://www.soilandhealth.org/03sov/0302hsted/030212campbell/campbell%201...

I was astounded by the amount harvested. Are there any TOD biologists that care to comment? A postPeak future with very little FF-pesticide will require lots of bats to keep the bugs at bay.

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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oilmanbob on August 4, 2007 - 5:03pm

Hi Bob Shaw,
The problem with storing natural gas as fertilizer is that the ammonia plants have mostly moved overseas in search of cheap gas.
Don't worry, nobody's going to flare gas. Its illegal, as well as economicially wasteful. What the pipelines will do is pro-rate how much gas a producer can sell, forcing them to shut in wells in accordance with the shut in provisions of the leases. All oil and gas leases have shut in provisions, gas has mostly been in surplus in the US. I'm a landman, we buy oil leases, this is in my area of professional expertise.

I like the bat farm idea. However, I'll bet the neighbors would complain a lot less with a worm farm, and worm castings are high dollar. Worms are high protein and can also be used in aquaculture as fish food or sold for bait. It might make a real commercial operation for a small farmer.
Bob Ebersole

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Lanterne rouge on August 4, 2007 - 5:04pm

Does the bat poop actually work any better than bird poop?

I think the difference is the lack of nitrogen leaching caused by the critters pooping in the dry. So a barn roost for swifts etc. would work as well.

Most of the huge deposits in places like Chile were made economically exploitable by steam power in the C19th have been used up, and what remains will be small beer. I would have bat roosts anyway, but I would for resilience' sake try to spread increased fertility across as many sources as possible.

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totoneila on August 4, 2007 - 5:28pm

Hello Oilmanbob and Lantern Rouge,

Thxs for responding. Good points by both of you,thxs. Worms and composting are good, but they don't eat the flying critters, and most birds poop everywhere. Yep, keeping any natural fertilizer free from water is the secret to reduce nitrogen leaching. We need 'em all; as many species as possible from extinction to optimize the decline: worms, birds for daylight, bats for night-time; the Circle of Life.

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

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WNC Observer on August 5, 2007 - 10:29am

Interesting thought. Homemade bat roosts or bat boxes look pretty easy to build. Not much more than a couple of boards with a bat-width space in between and a little roof overhead. Maybe you rout some horizontal grooves on the interior boards to give the bats something to grab on to? Here's a link for one set of plans I have found, a Google will find you more:

http://www.dnr.state.wi.us/org/land/er/publications/bats/PDFs/BatHouseDi...

I suppose one could very easily set these things up over one's compost bin so that the droppings just go directly into the compost. That would keep the droppings from accumulating, assuming you turn your compost occasionally (and will thus keep down the smell) and it would also massively increase the fertilizer value of the compost. Plus that would eliminate any extra shoveling on one's part.

There are some do's and don'ts regarding bat house management - this link has all the good info:

http://www.batmanagement.com/Batcentral/batboxes/whyfail.html

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