concerned
of course there are always preditors and prey. But what other species even makes organised attempts to help others?
Is there dolphin welfare with one dolphin bring a ration of fish to a crippled dolphin?Have elephants in Africa set up refuges and camps for the child soldiers?
And the answer is none. They are incapable, I'm sure is the excuse, or reason, but the fact remains that man does try to aid the helpless members of society and do things like set up refuges for orphaned gorillas and orangatangs.

There's a meme to help others. Any science that is published has the motive of helping others through sharing knowledge. Rven the Jehova's Witnesses that come to the door do so to keep you from going to hell. And even if you disagree with their premise as I do, I know they are tring to live their faith and share the joy they find with me, so I just tell 'em god bless you, I'm happy with my church, I'm very glad to see that you are witnessing as the bible tells us all to, take their magazine and shut the door. I guess its lying to them but the easiest way to move them down the street.
Bob Ebersole

Bob,
Thank you for sharing this.

I'm not so sure other animals don't make organized attempts to help others as they certainly seem to be a lot more intelligent and sophisticated than we have assumed. This piece on elephants was heart-rending for me:

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/10/08/magazine/08elephant.html?pagewanted=1&...

We are constantly having to revise our view of the 'lower' animals in terms of their having not only feelings but somewhat sophisticated culture.

"I'm not so sure other animals don't make organized attempts to help others as they certainly seem to be a lot more intelligent and sophisticated than we have assumed."

We have a deck with glass panels. There's a bird feeder outside my window, over the deck.

Every other week or so, a bird -- generally a fledgeling, who hasn't learned yet -- flies into the glass and knocks themselves silly.

When that happens, I go out, pick up the poor thing, and set it on the railing, so that when it comes to, it won't immediately fly into the glass again.

The funny thing is when a semi-conscious bird is sitting there, other birds will come up and sit with it -- they never sit on the deck railing otherwise. It isn't just relatives; it's often birds of different species.

It's probably anthropomorphic to think so, but I like to think they're keeping the dazed bird company until it can fly again.

:::: Jan Steinman, Communication Steward, EcoReality http://www.EcoReality.org ::::

The Law of Mutual Aid --a treatise by Peter Kropotkin. Can GOOGLE it and read it on the net.The subject ranges across various species.
By the way, amazing thread, this. Warms me heart.

ET

I stand saddened and ashamed of my species. That's a masterful piece of writing, and I had no idea of what the elephant extermination is destroying.

About 40 years ago an oil operator named Bill Kilroy bought an elephant for his ranch in Brookshire. He was arich Republican, but this was in the early 60's, pre Nixon presidency or the "southern strategy" that enshrined Republican racism. My father would take us out to visit a lot. Bill Kilroy was given two more babies by other rich Pachyderms, and he hired an elephant trainer. I don't know what ever happened to the elephants, but the trainer was arrested for child molesting.

William S. Bill Kilroy was a very nice man and a great operator, a big buddy of Bob Mosbacher's. Ran a big drilling fund and died about 10 years ago. He operated a lot of wells, too. I'm glad I knew him.
Bob Ebersole

Certainly predator and prey and the distinction is strong or powerful over the weak.

It's why some punk with a gun or knife can take your wallet in an alley and the same punk if caught gets to front court and go to jail.

I don't want to put a "good" or "bad" spin on things. Just and observation.

I would add that it is easier to give in a world of plenty when you yourself have a surplus. Take away that surplus and induce even a mild defecit and giving becomes impossible.

We could live in a better world. If humanity came together decided to share resources more equally AND most importantly agree to somehow control our numbers. A planet with five hundred million people, working for each others mutual benefit without being marketed the need for rapacious overconsumption. That would be in my view a better world.