<Peak PhosphorusThe Oil DrumDrumBeat: August 18, 2007>

265 comments on Peak Oil Booklet - Chapter 4: What Should We Do Now?

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Gene on August 16, 2007 - 10:46am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Gail, I've been reading your drafts and I must say you are putting a lot of thought and work into this. Perhaps you've discussed what follows already, if so just ignore my comments.

I don't recall you saying anything about neighborhood co-ops that exist already. I'm not referring to the seed and feed stores, but rather to loose associations of people who agree among themselves as to who grows what each year. There are advantages to having not to grow all things yourself. Primarily because its more efficient if you grow only grain crops and your neighbor grows fruits, and another grows root crops, etc. With exception of trees, crop rotation occurs between participants, so that if I grew grain last year, and you grew beans we would rotate with each other and the other participants. This keeps the soil from deteriorating, etc. and makes much more sense than trying to grow everything yourself. The folks here where I live already do this somewhat informally and it works well. It also encourages internal family to family trade, cooperation on other things, and creates a better social environment for everyone. A small 40'x40' garden plot is sufficient to grow many things with enough left over for trading so one needn't think that multi-acre farming is necessary. This approach, of course, doesn't exclude growing the usual backyard crops, like tomatoes, etc. for your own consumption, but many people often grow far too many tomatoes, cucumbers, etc. than they can use themselves, and the excess typically ends up being wasted.

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Gail the Actuary on August 16, 2007 - 11:04am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

There are a lot of things I don't know about. What you are talking about sounds like a good idea, and if I can, I should at least reference it.

Do you have a web site address that talks a little about this kind of thing?

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Gene on August 16, 2007 - 1:43pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I suppose there are some urls, but I've not looked for them. I'll see what I can find. It's just sort of common sense around here, but this is a small rural community (~5k ) - primarily farming, but those who don't farm (myself for instance ) have other skills that don't rely on electricity or gas and can trade those skills for what is produced by those who do farm, raise livestock, etc. For example, I'm a fairly decent woodworker. I use power tools, but also have the hand tools and skills to build useful items out from a tree ( and I have several thousand trees )without electricity - it just takes longer. And others here can do the same with pottery, metal work, community defense, etc. Just a couple quick rhetorical questions related to my particular "specialty" to give a sense of the depth of knowledge one should have in their chosen skill: Would you know how to dry green lumber? Know what a shaving horse is? The difference in quartersawn, vs. rift sawn? How to sharpen a handplane or saw? Could you build a wheelbarrow(starting with a live tree ) without using any metal fasteners, power tools, or glue's? Can you make hide glue? and so on. :)

Often these sort of informal co-ops are an outgrowth of church groups/congregations but that's not a requirement.

The people who are totally reliant on massively complex logistical support for their survival (NYC, LA, for example )will be the ones who suffer in your worst case example.

Edit: Ok, got in under the wire with a couple:

The first is general information that's good to know. It doesn't cover everything in total detail, but is a good starter.
http://www.primitiveways.com/index.html
This other is pretty much all woodworking related with handtools. I'm sure their are similar sites for other basic skills, and small community co-ops. In fact the "official farm co-ops would be an excellent source of info.

http://www.cianperez.com/Wood/WoodDocs/Wood_How_To/INDEX_How_To.htm

and a essential book everyone should have: Glover Pocket Reference, about $8 from Amazon - http://www.amazon.com/Pocket-Ref-Thomas-J-Glover/dp/1885071000
This entire concept is as foreign as an obscure language to big-city folks I'm sure, who often don't even know who lives in the apartment next door. It was to me for 3/4's of my life and I'm in my 60's now. 3 times as many people now, as when I was born. Different skill sets required for city vs. country life, so the outcome is dependent on which skill set is more conducive to species survival. Votes are still being counted.

BTW, this community has been here over 200 years. It's not one of those "eco-village" experiments.

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Gail the Actuary on August 16, 2007 - 2:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thanks for the ideas. I will have to figure out a way to incorporate them. It is a problem for most of us to get our knowledge level up regarding the many needed skills.

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btu on August 16, 2007 - 2:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Gail this is a great list and in a way sounds wonderful, I for one am ready to slow down and get off the treadmill. Heirloom seeds may also fall into the catagory of "open pollinated" seed, meaning seeds from these plants can be saved and replanted. Corn, wheat, soybeans all were open pollinated originally and wheat to a large extent still is free of genetic modification. One other suggestion I would make while folks still have decent paying jobs is to eliminate debt ASAP, it will be much easier to make ends meet without bank and credit card debt when times get tough.

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Gail the Actuary on August 16, 2007 - 7:03pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I talk about paying down debt in the investments section. Maybe I should label it "debt and investments".

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wizofaus on August 17, 2007 - 12:07am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I'd think that to "slow down and get off the treadmill" is fundamentally incompatible with trying to be more self-sufficient. In countries where subsistence farming is still the norm, people almost never get off the treadmill - it's often 12 hour days 7 days a week.

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Todd on August 17, 2007 - 1:02pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Wiz,

Well, you obviously haven't done it but I made a decision to slow down and get off the tread mill over 30 years ago. Sure there are trade-offs but let's talk about 12 hour days.

I've worked lots of them over the years however there is a difference between 12 hours "at work for someone else" and 12 hours "at home working for yourself." Right now I'm finishing up cutting and splitting firewood. If I get tired of playing timberfaller, I quit and do something else for awhile (and there really is always something else that is worthwhile to do). This morning I split wood for a bit then decided to irrigate the strawberries. And, now I'm posting this after which I'll irrigate the garden and then go back to firewood.

My only commute is walking out the door. I live on top of a mountain and it is peaceful and serene. No noise except the wind or birds (well, there is the chainsaw when I'm cutting). I don't have a boss who wants me to cut corners or lie to get a customer. I work to my own standards even if it isn't efficient in a business sense of cranking out more faster and faster.

If I get really tired in the afternoon, I may stop and sit down for a bit and have a beer or two then go back to what I was doing. I'm not stuck in an office or cubical watching the clock.

Gene Logsdon has a neat section about some Amish gathering corn in his book The Contrary Farmer, ISBN 0-930031-67-9 (a book which everyone who is thinking about Ag should read). Anyway, he sort of snuck through a corn row and watched them work. He expected that they would be grumpy and doing it because they "had" to. Instead, he found that they were actually having a good time while wroking. To me this is one of the major differences between the kind of life I have led since saying the hell with being a chem plant manager and living in the boondocks. Yes, there is an unending bunch of work to do but work is fun (most of the time) even when it is hard and makes for a long day.

Todd

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wizofaus on August 17, 2007 - 5:07pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Todd,

That lifestyle obviously appeals to you, and may appeal to many posters here, but I'd still suggest most people aren't going to see it as being off the treadmill.

Admittedly my perspective is somewhat warped, as I have the freedom to work from home as much as I want, virtually whatever hours I want (within reason), and have a high level of control over what projects we take on. My 'boss' has never asked me to cut corners or lie to customers either (in fact my sum total contact with my boss is when he shouts us to a nice lunch once a week). I've even asked recently whether I can trade in a pay-raise for a reduction in working hours, which he's considering.

I suppose what I'm suggesting is that there's more than one way to escape the constant pace and pressure of working for large corporations - and I suspect there's more options for those who choose to continue to work in high-technology jobs as part of a small company, or even run their own companies, than there are for those who wish to take up a more rural, self-sustaining existence.

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