![]() | A Tale of Two Speeches--OPEC's Demand Side Fear Is Very Real | The Oil Drum | Lord Oxburgh Warns Oil Demand To Outstrip Supply | ![]() |
203 comments on DrumBeat: September 16, 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
203 comments on DrumBeat: September 16, 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
- What "Lower Consumption" Means
- Tricking and Treating the Future
- Meeting Energy Decline Part-Way - Potatoes?
TOD:Europe
- EROWI - energy return of water invested
- An interview with Stoneleigh - the case for deflation
- The Future of European Transport: iTREN-2030
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- The Bullroarer - Saturday 7th November 2009
- The Bullroarer - Friday 30th October 2009
- Details of Solar Flagships Released
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- The Energy Blog
- Entropy Production
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“I'd put my money on solar energy… I hope we don't have to wait til oil and coal run out before we tackle that.”
—Thomas Edison, in conversation with Henry Ford and Harvey Firestone, March 1931
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
Oh, THIS outta take one TOD's posters underware and get it all cinched up. (As if it works.)
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/technology/technology.htm...
About time someone repealed one of the basic laws underlying physics.
Of course, in all fairness, it is possible that some sort of chemical action is taking place, especially with that 'secret liquid catalyst' and potassium carbonate (color me very sceptical, though).
"It sounds too good to be true - not to mention the fact that it violates almost every known law of physics."
SOLD! I can't turn down investing in something that teaches those scientists and mother nature a thing or to. The almighty dollar knows no bounds.
Plus I hear the secret ingredient is fossil fuels.
Kind've reminds me of The Matrix where the second law is defied, as explained by Morpheus, by them using humans combined with a form of fusion for powering those evil machines.
So that's like going to an airline pilot and asking him how the plane flies, only for him to reply "Why, by the use of rubber bands combined with two 120 kN turbofans running on JP-8".
Some other guy had similar claims about hydrinos, or hydrogen atoms that are at a lower state than ground state. *Shrug* We cant even make a unified theory after 110 years of trying, much less fully understand what causes gravity....
"Some other guy had similar claims about hydrinos, or hydrogen atoms that are at a lower state than ground state."
Good ol' Blacklight Power
http://www.blacklightpower.com/
Some other guy had similar claims about hydrinos, or hydrogen atoms that are at a lower state than ground state.
'Round these here parts that is what Airdale tells us.
Basic physics aside the article and the schema don't explain one thing: they claim that the reaction is taking place in a mixture of water, potassium carbonate and that "secret catalyst". After the heated water escapes, obviously the dissolved carbonate and "secret catalyst" also escape with it... where does the device continuously inject those compounds in the incoming water? How much would I need for a liter? Per joule of produced heat? Were they factored in the EROEI? Oh right, they can't because that catalyst is a secret... LOL
From the diagram, it looks like the reaction fluid does not escape from the device. The energy is transfered to the water flowing via a heat exchanger. The result may be a very efficient water heater, but the claim that there's more energy produced than that of the electric supply would violate basic physics. It should be very easy to test the claim that this device produces more energy than that supplied, so one must consider the statements by the university folks to be of some merit.
E. Swanson
Ooops. You are right, the diagram shows just that.
In this case the question remains where does the extra energy come from? If it is indeed from some undiscovered lower energy state of water, then how long before the water in the initial mix becomes "exhausted"? Or it endlessly goes down the energy curve?!? Could this be some sort of cold fusion? Either way sounds like a complete BS to me.
I thought it was perfectly obvious: the energy surplus is being tapped from another dimension. Imagine their outrage when the beings from that dimension discover what we're up to...
LOL! Didn't you borrow this from one of the Asimov's novels? "The Gods Themselves"?
It's gonna be the thiotimoline with it's four bonds at 90 degrees to each other that saves us, right?
--
All these memories will be lost in time
like tears in rain
You can buy ground source and air source heat pumps that put out via an exchanger 1:3 to 1:5 energy in for heat output (of course they take the heat from the air or ground). I've been lookign at a DIY one in the UK:
http://www.cooleasy.co.uk/product-wall.htm eg 1Kw elec. in, 3.3-3.6Kw heat out
The problem is that natural gas is still very much cheaper than electricity (in the UK anyway) for heating your house/water so these devices would only become viable if the price of the heating fuel relative to that of electricity was to go up. OR// if you have no natural GAS!
This device seems to be achieving the same result (if not quite as efficient) as the heat pump idea - except they don't know where the extra energy is coming from in this case.
Marco.
Furthermore the article says 'heating bills could be slashed in half' - this would only be the case if your house/water was heated by electricity alone. Most people I know in the UK gave up electric (white meter) heating in the late 80's and switched to GCH/OCH.
Marco.
The inventor holds this patent for a similar device from 1998:
http://www.primeideas.info/patents/PART51.pdf
If the device puts out more energy than you put into it, what happens when you hook two of 'em together in a loop? Mushroom cloud? Meltdown? Rift in spacetime?
A great investment opportunity, a solution to the subprime melt down and a means for America to repay her debts. It's an energy Viagra without the Viagra.
What is the EROEI on the catalyst? I am given to understand that the productions of chrome involves a heating process that uses silicon or aluminium.
Silicon is commercially prepared by the reaction of high-purity silica with wood, charcoal, and coal, in an electric arc furnace using carbon electrodes - using fossil fuel energys.
Aluminum is also energy intensive to make with an "average specific energy consumption of approximately 15±0.5 kilowatt-hours per kilogram of aluminium produced from alumina. (52 to 56 MJ/kg). The most modern smelters reach approximately 12.8 kW·h/kg (46.1 MJ/kg)." (from wikki)
On the face of things it looks good, but what the real costs are, and how long the unit and its catalyst last need to be known for a fair evaluation.
Chrome, as a heavy metal might also be a significant source of polution in the istance that these should become common place And that the catalyst had to be regularly disgarded.