65 comments on ASPO 6: Have we reached the tipping point?
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65 comments on ASPO 6: Have we reached the tipping point?
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Many readers will be familiar with Nate's writings here on The Oil Drum (read his articles here), but it's worth reiterating Julian's point. Perhaps it was because neuroscience was a new subject for an ASPO conference or that he just told us what we already knew to be true but hadn't had articulated but in discussions after his speech it was clear he had made a real impact with the ASPO delegates.
I had some time to speak with Schlesinger after the conference and as Julian says he’s not too concerned about the date. He recognises the problem but more seriously he recognises how we aren’t addressing it. It makes no difference if peak oil 5, 10 or 15 years away if we do nothing to address it. He said it’s going to “hit us between the eyes like a two by four”.
I heartily applaud Jeremy Leggett for comparing "our" understanding of fossil fuel reserves with that of the IPCC and showing the IPCC numbers most likely in error on the high side. This critical conclusion - that there likely isn't enough oil and gas as cause calamity - is very important for understanding and formulating a response to energy depletion and climate change. Leggett's conclusion that it is all about coal is exactly right and where the climate change debate needs to focus in my opinion. This is the same conclusion reached by NASA's Dr James Hansen earlier this year in his paper Implications of "Peak Oil" for Atmospheric CO2 and Climate.
Thanks Chris (and Julian)
Im traveling again so this will likely be my only reply here.
The Irish Elk was used as an example because runaway sexual selection over hundreds of thousands of years ill prepared them for the resource change that occurred in the Younger Dryas cooling period 10-15,000 years ago. Since forage density declined, they couldn't obtain the nutrients they had become accustomed to during the warmer climate which were required to support such a large antler mass, so their bodies had to leach phosphorous and calcium from their bones - all to keep the horns big - thats the leading theory on why they died off. Humans too have been selected at being good at acquiring resources, and via sexual selection, moving up the mating ladder with conspicuous consumption being the current 'antlers'. And now we too, are going to be facing a time of 'environmental' change.
Fortunately we have something the elk did not. A huge forebrain of intellect, and culture, which can move faster than genes. But as the writer points out, via hedonic adaptation (and often addiction) we quickly habituate to new stimuli and need newer stimuli to feel the same 'rush', etc. This results in bigger and bigger antlers. We also are figuring out that we are not happier with 'more' (larger antlers), but ARE happier with more social interactions, community etc. Thus we cannot change our evolutionary wiring to want 'more' - we can only change how we define or perceive 'more'. So the 64,000 barrel question is how can we discard our 4 meter antlers (conspicuous consumption) that are requiring all our nutrients (oil, water, ecosystems etc)? Any answers will likely originate from individually and tribally selfish reasons (making changes because it improves ones own life or ones 'group', which is usually quite small in number). Knowing this is a huge advantage
After a few years of various gradients of fear/apprehension of upcoming dislocations, I now view Peak Oil almost as a gift - as it will force us to take a hard look at the social traps that are spinning and getting larger but not really getting too far (see Genuine Progress Indicator).
I do plan to write on this when I get back from mushroom hunting. (I'll be wearing camo so as not to scare them..;)
Amanita pantherina should be out about now and they don't scare easy, quite the reverse one might say. Also could cure one of wanting more too ... at least till ones universe quietens down.
I'm planning on checking to see if the Chantarelles are out now, I live a quite life these days myself, not even a hair of the psilocybe anymore:)
Yes we could have made Genuine Progress too bad we preferred to make Potage. BTW you are sitting inside one big social trap right now, good for you going mushroom hunting ... 'The Great Out of Doors' ... now that's what we were built for.
Good hunting.
Mushrooms are great. You can easily get a few days worth of food with a quick trip to the nearest forest. (At least in Finland where there are plenty of forests). And they taste delicious. There are also a lot more edible mushrooms out there than people tend to think. And no, I'm not talking about Amanita Muscaria. ;)
Hahaha!
Did you see camo'd Matt 'DEFCON1' Savinar in "A Crude Awakening" -nice one Matt. I especially like the nice touch of emergency ration stores in the background. Can you put some camo grease on next time and have a subline reading "shot from a secret location"... hehe.
and Nate, I really liked the 'Dumbo found worrying over global warming gets eaten by tigers' sketch too, keep 'em coming...
Nick.
speaking of Matt, aka 'Chimp who can drive'
If you are reading this, your LATOC site appears to be permanently down:
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I am beginning to miss my daily dose of doom...
Its been like this all week...
Thanks Chris for the extra bits. Can you dwell a bit mo on the following bits:
Which numbers? The oil, gas or coal reserve numbers they are using?
Just to make sure: the real data from the field on warming & ice melting on poles is happening faster than their worst case scenario (latest IPCC high scenario 2007).
Very good point! A lot of people have been trying to hammer this point home elsewhere.
However, to make sure I understand where you stand.
This (burning the rest of the oil) is "no problem" IF and ONLY IF:
- we do not increase emissions significantly from ANY other resources (yes, coal is the most abundant, but there are other potential emissions sources too)
- we do not see the rapid depletion of oil as a problem by itself (cf. Oil Depletion Protocol)
That is, using the rest of the oil (rapidly) might be a problem for us, regardless of climate change AND considering our voracious energy appetite, we are going to be using lots of other emitting primary sources other than "all of oil" too.
Here's what I wrote in another thread on this topic:
"I once looked at the numbers with a friend and to my surprise, Jeremy Legget did something similar (with slightly different numbers) in his speech on the conference.
Our result:
Gross Climate Limit: 4.90 GtCeq/y (IPCC for 2000-2100)
- Land use change: 1.60 GtCeq/y (IPCC for 2000-2100)
- Livestock GHG: 1.25 GtCeq/y (FAO, for 2004)
= Net Climate Limit for Energy: 2.05 GtCeq/y max.
I.e. Net Climate Limit for Energy for 2000-2100: 205 GtCeq
(GtCeq means gigatons of carbon equivalent. There are other units around, like CO2eq, so if you want to compare, be careful!)
If you compare this "climate limit" of 2.05 GtCeq with the various reserve estimates, you find that even with the most conservative fossil fuel reserve estimates, we can just afford to burn all the oil and gas that's there but only if we do not burn a single gram of coal at the same time.
So, as many speaker said during the conference: Peak Oil will not save us from Global Warming, especially not if CTL and tar sands will be used as large-scale substitutes.
Cheers,
Davidyson
Reference to the FAO report:
http://www.virtualcentre.org/en/library/key_pub/longshad/A0701E00.pdf
"
Point six is the issue that resonates with me. How does peak oil and climate change intersect. Well, the fact is that oil and gas reserves have been wildly over-estimated. Because of that, there simply isn't enough of the stuff to lead to the catastrophic problems that are predicted in the models, and all of it is going to get used regardless of any concessions that might be gained regarding CAFE standards etc. Those fights, I suggest are counterproductive. Because of the long lifetime of CO2 in the atmosphere, that carbon is going to be released. It is essentially a fait accompli. All we are arguing about is who gets to burn it and the relatively short time frame in which it is burned. Conservation makes sense in terms of mitigating the impact of scarcity, but not as a matter of dealing with climate change. The entire issue of avoiding the worst of what climate change has in store for our decendents is in how we deal with coal. And I would suggest that since any environmental struggle is something of a David and Goliath struggle against intrenched heavily funded economic interests, fighting on all fronts is doomed to failure. Focusing on one, coal, evens the odds to some extent. The battle cry should be "No new coal fired power plants without carbon sequestration" If we could pull that off, we have a chance.
SW
Someone drew my attention to a Stanford panel in November last year in which former Secretary of State George P. Shultz was reported to have said something about Peak Oil. Finally was able to track down what he said. He didn't explicitly refer to Peak Oil, but he did say:
"But I don't want to have you leave that oil question sitting on the table. And I want to say, looking at all the different things that go wrong because of oil, how many times do we have to be hit on the head with a two-by-four before we make a determined effort to use less oil."
(Link not handy, but it was called the Anxious Times Roundtable.)
Also was listening to the recent interview with Roger Morris on Electric Politics last night. Seemed like in some ways he wasn't yet fully attuned to the seriousness of Peak Oil, yet I think he also used the two-by-four metaphor.