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30 comments on Questions and Answers on Energy Issues

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DIYer on October 21, 2007 - 1:54pm Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

In another comment, I was wondering if anyone had done an investigation of furans (or HMF) as organic feedstocks.

If we are willing to overlook the inefficiency of photosynthesis, furans generally have the following advantages:

  • not infinitely soluble in water, so like butanol they tend to separate
  • derived by chemical refining of sachharides, so there isn't any messy wet fermentation step
  • likewise, they don't have to be distilled from a dilute zymurgical beer

It seems there were a couple articles on them floating around last spring, but no real analysis of the energy inputs. Some midwestern graduates students had discovered a process for hydrogentating them, as I recall (hydrogen being an obvious energy input).

| The problem will solve itself.
|  But not in a nice way.

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rdberg42 on October 21, 2007 - 3:19pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

RR--As a non-technical visitor to The Oil Drum, I daresay your new approach to writing is more satisfying to me as a reader. You collect questions of interest to you and respond to them rather comprehensively instead of responding to this criticism and that piecemeal. You feel less fragmented and diverted from your family. I feel like I get more benefit from your expertise. Win-Win from my perspective.

I now know what holds up butanol as a fuel source when before I never quite understood.

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Gilgamesh on October 21, 2007 - 6:43pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

HMF is a product of the maillard reaction (aka browning food)

it's mutagenic as well. (not sure if its more or less toxic than gasoline)

It could be fuel source, but this is basically a direct conversion of sugars into a fuel. We all know about where this is going. The wiki says that cellulose and starch can be used, but breaking down cellulose is still the big problem. (seriously if we could break down cellulose efficiently it would be nice!)

furthermore the wiki on furalfural notes it explosively decomposes above 250C. it's also pretty toxic.

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DIYer on October 22, 2007 - 3:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thanks, I read the wiki articles. I was hoping RR knows more about the subject than WikiPedia. And is willing to write about it.

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Boof on October 23, 2007 - 8:48am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thanks for the lead. I drew some wood gas through water and wondered what could have condensed in it...furans, acetals and tar-like compounds seemingly. Methane, hydrogen and carbon oxides would have passed through without condensing. A giant bong or water pipe could maybe collect serious amounts.

I note the EPA listed furan along with dioxin as an unacceptable pollutant at a proposed new paper mill nearby.

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30 comments on Questions and Answers on Energy Issues

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