It appears there is a really good chance of $100 oil WTI/NYMEX) today, I would say at around 12 Noonish after the inventory report.

I assume everyone knows TAPIS broke 100 last nite - see
http://www.theoildrum.com/node/3206

CAD$ breaks 1.10. Subprime/credit worries...the world definitely is a different place in the last 10 months...but it still is business as usual for most.

Triple Yergin ($114) probability by Jan. 2008, increased to 80%.

I have to say, hitting these numbers faster is even more disturbing than the actual number themselves. ie. 80 and 90 blew by so fast it didn't even sink in (or price up gasoline)

BTW, I suppose the crackspread is near non-existent NOW, so the prices will have to passed along downstream much faster. Going to have to crunch on probabilities of $4.00 US gasoline.

It seems like only yesterday that you could slap down a Yergin and get a barrel of oil and some change .

Get ready for a Carry Trade Hiccup...YEN down to 113.18...blew through the KEY carry trade support point of 114 last nite. (It had been fighting 114 for the last month with internal Japanese manipulations). No more.

Frankly, I don't know what this means in the short term..but just know the carry traders were afraid of that threshold.

The Swiss franc is seeing big day to day moves also. It is 1.15% stronger from yesterday as I write this. About 6% stronger over the last few months. These are big moves for the Sw Fr.
I have read the SwFr carry trade that developed because of its low interest rates( approx 1%)is being unwound also.
Anyone that borrowed the SwFr to buy dollar denominated debt instruments is getting hammered.

Cramer says oil stocks not for the buy and holder:
http://www.thestreet.com/video/index.html?clipId=1373_10388657&channel=C...

The stocks are "undeniably trading oriented" buy when low, sell when high. Sort of like what Will Rogers said about how to make money int he stock market: buy a stock, wait till it goes up, then sell it. If it doesn't go up, don't buy it.

Why would the Swiss drop interest rates to 1%? In 2003/04 the Swiss Franc was much stronger.

You'll know things are REALLY bad when the US$ and the Yen reach parity.

The last time the Yen got this weak was back in August. I was reading a lot about the coming catastrophe as the carry trade unwound (bankruptcies in Mumbai, hedge funds going under, stuff like that). It only lasted for a few days before the Yen went back down again. This time the movement is much more dramatic. I wonder if it will come back as quick this time.

yes the yen looks like a very good investment right now.

carry-trading(shorting yen, buying higher yielding currencys) isnt profitable in markets this volatile. it usually follows the dow jones 30 almost tick by tick. i guess you could say buying yen is like shorting stock markets with extrem leverage. and we all know where the stock markets are going, dont we?

Even though I knew this was coming and worse is yet to come down the road, the full implications are hard to grasp. Being a farmer, I'm trying to figure how much I need for crops to break even and the equation changes so fast I can't keep up.

How much is a bale of hay worth when diesel is $4/gallon?

Should I fertilize the ground when fertilizer costs another hundred dollars a ton?

What happens if I don't?

Scary times folks.

I did inhale.

Scary times indeed...

Ya know what would get you mind offa all these currency problems?

A good old fashioned war.

Whoah! Another insightful comment from deep mind:)

A whole lot of farmers here are asking the same questions.

They are unsure of anything..except forward contract and store in your own bins as need be..then ride out what comes...

Yet farmers are familiar with ups and downs and have some resilency..its the newer guys who are way way into debt that can end up dead in the hog lot with the pigs crunching away on their skeletal structure..and it can happen fast...

The older ones who own the land they farm..and not rent or share...they can ride a lot more out.

But when the banks go tits up? Then look out for the process servers will come(some say) and then?????????????

A heck of a lot of farms were gotten that way..of the court house steps at auction...brought sometimes for just back taxes.

Now ..who knows.

Finally the 'eaters' are pissed at the machinations of creating the 'farm bill' and bitching that junior and janie are obsese because of H.F.C.Syrup and the ag people are to blame...sure its never the parent!!!

airdale-watching closely as it all rides out..and it will ride out as the black stuff gets more and more expensive
Who says gas is not up? I am paying almost $3 for what a week or so ago was $2.74

Airdale – Love your posts. You got the wrong name.

Not just because I hate airdales,(airheads) but because you are more tenacious than that.

I might be so bold as to suggest JRterrierist or some such.

I have rat terriers (Roosevelt terriers) and they are better “people” than most others I hang with.

Cheers!

Another excellent Airdale post!

Yes, those old farmers know the score.

If I'd run my small biz like an old farmer, I'd be OK now. By running it like an old farmer I mean drive a used car/minival that's all paid for, don't use credit at all, and probably just have my "stuff' in a storage or small office and rent a room to live in, or sleep in the van.

Of course out here in N. Az. the way to do it is to own the place, avoiding renting as well as avoiding debt.

The idea is to make things fairly failure-proof, and set things up so that if there's failure it's in degrees not catastrophic.

On an agriculture related note:

Today there was milk in my grocery store for the first time in about two months. It was powdered. There were two policemen with handguns and bullet proof vests guarding the milk.

I live in Venezuela right now, and there hasn´t been much milk around for about two months. You can still occasionaly get yogurt and chocolate milk (although it is Really expensive), and the cafés seem to get enough to put in their coffee, but whole, skim, and powdered milk has been absent.

The milk industry spokesperson says its because the government fixed the price controls too low. The governments says it`s because world milk, and world cow-feed prices are very high right now. A taxi driver told me that local producers would rather sell the milk across the border in Columbia.

I don`t have any real idea about the causes, but I didn´t like my shopping experience today. The line was HUGE, people were shoving and pushing, lots of people were trying to get around the 2kg limit. The shoppers pretty much ignored the produce-boy´s attempts to keep the check-out line orderly. The police were smart and stuck to keeping an eye on the milk. It was ugly. If world agricultural production can`t keep up to world population (and world demand) I don`t think this will be the only time this happens.

-planning on investigating vegan cuisine and milk substitutes.

Wow. But with all the oil money coming in, can't the government afford to subsidize milk so it doesn't all go to Columbia, without raising the price?

On the other hand, how cheap was gasoline in Venezuela? Did they not want to drive to Columbia to buy milk?

Columbia is 12 hours drive away from the capital of Venezuela.

The road isn´t up to north-american highway standards.
There is traffic, and border hastles, and hastles with protesters on the highway in Columbia (something about a toll booth that Columbia is putting in). There are fears of paramilitarys.

But yes gas is cheap. 98 bolivares a litre. On the official market a US dollar is 2150 bolivares. On the parallel market it is 5600.

"98 bolivares a litre. On the official market a US dollar is 2150 bolivares."

This equals about 20 cents per gallon of gasoline! I think that if they would raise that price then maybe the dairy farmers couldn't afford to ship their milk to Columbia.

If you're so knowledgeable, would it kill you to spell the country names correctly?

PDVSA might be earning about 300 million dollars a day if it sells all of the crude it pulls out of the ground for 100 dollars a barrel. That works out to 12 dollars a day per capita. However when you look at things like internal consumption and international deal making it is probably less.

(An inside source told me that PDVSA produces 3.1 million barrels a day, but it is heavy crude and sells for less than a hundred dollars a barrel. One type sells for 85 dollars a barrel, which would make it 10 dollars a day per capita.)

It spends a lot of money on making infrastructure (roads, railroads, factories, housing, re-nationalization, hydro-electric dams...) So money isn´t as free and easy as you might think.

They do have subsidized milk. It comes in through Mercal, the subsidized food stores. I beleive that any milk can qualify for the subsidy as long as its under a certain price and can come from any country.

You can get it every second week at the mega-market. The line is huuuuuge (they put up tents to protect people from the sun and rain, but you have to line up for a long time before you get in under the tent). And often you hear that the milk is gone before you get there. You´re limited to 1 kg per person every second week. Not to mention that its powdered (people here are used to that, but as a pampered north american it makes me say "guakala" in disgust).

A week ago a fairly politically neutral newspaper printed an article saying that Mercal would be able to provide 40% of the national demand. But when the constituional reform goes through they will be able to force companies operating in the country to sell a certain percentage of their production on the local market. The main goal of that is in the aluminum and steel markets, but won´t go amiss in the coffee, chocolate and milk markets either.

The US bought Venezuelan crude at an average price of $64.21 in August and as little as $44.77 in January.

http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/ive0000004m.htm

Thanks for posting, Synchro. I appreciate hearing firsthand experiences.

Firsthand experiences *especially* from outside the USA, are very valuable. We're really not trying to be US-centric here, it just seems that way.

There's an idea for you:

OMEC - the Organization of Milk Exporting Countries

I keep hearing that we can just switch to alternative energies as oil supply declines. What are farmers worried about?

"You can never solve a problem on the level on which it was created."
Albert Einstein

IMO you will see very significant demand destruction soon.

It isn't going to come from price, at any price, even $10/gal.

The banks are beginning to see massive losses from credit card defaults, as soon as they are forced to put the funny paper on the books or can no longer insure it, they will withdraw credit (lower limits to current balances). Then the gig is up and we will have a much smaller economy where liquidity is king and paper net worth very secondary. This will weed out the non producing leeches from both the top and the bottom.

Our economy at the moment is like a car that has so much rust that it's only the paint that is holding it togeather. The problem is that the paint is starting to peel.

There is actually some logic in trying to hold on to one's suburban/SUV lifestyle, if high energy prices--as Michael Lynch tirelessly tells us--are temporary, because it is expensive in the short run to downsize. Of course, if Lynch continues to be wrong. . .

http://www.bitsofnews.com/content/view/6396/
Pol/Econ: Credit Cards: The Next Subprime Crisis
Monday, 05 November 2007 Written by Garrett Johnson

Turning to credit cards to maintain a lifestyle that you can't afford is financial suicide. Credit card interest is typically more than double the most risky of subprime mortgages. Once a consumer has gone too far down this path their bankruptcy is assured.

Of course it is also suicide for the lending institution. But like the consumer, American banks are dependent on those high-yield products, despite the near certainty of rising defaults and losses.

So why is the consumer taking this self-destructive path? As Bonddad has so eloquently explained, wages aren't keeping up with the cost of living.

The consumer cannot afford the lifestyle that he/she is accustom to. They are already starting to cut back on luxuries, but that isn't enough. So instead of humbling him/herself, they are taking on debt to meet their basic needs.

I did inhale, and I did have sex with that woman, but for the sake of my children, I'm not turning a blind eye on the obvious truth.

If you are a young parent like me, give it some good, long , hard thinking how you will feed your kids 5 or 10 years hence. And the prospects they will be offered for their lives.

As the cowboy said, these are scary times. Get ready ( or pull up a chair, get a cold one etc,etc....)

I was thinking more about small productive assets like farms and fabrication shops that can provide liquid cash flow.

There are some highly educated dreamers that try to maintain a fake lifestyle on credit, and it is as you say financial suicide.

But lots of lower tranches of J6P's figured out that they are financial walking dead and are using credit with the full intent of defaulting on it, just as many 0 down interest only mortgages were entered into with the full intent to either profit or default.

IMO this is not understood in the penthouses yet, big difference between "trouble" and "intent"

Did you see the new, soon to be released, Capital One commercial?

What's in OUR wallet?

musashi, if you were the Emperor of China what would you figure? Maybe instead of converting all those Yankee dollars to Euros maybe take it out in US infrastructure? Lotsa bridges could be bought and tolls placed (slow down global warming too no doubt about it). The only fly in the ointment i see is that it would sort of take the treasure out of treasuries and then where would all that leveraged wealth be? There would be no one to pay the tolls. Hmmm must rethink this. Maybe instead of infrastructure you could take it out in mining, there is one S load of Asphalt to be had out on highway 66 for starters, pave over half of manchuria, not there any more you say? Oh well guess the party is really over. I guess it's time to put the bleachers out in the sun and have an auction on route 61.

Hello CrystalRadio,

Recall that I have been pounding away on biosolar mission-critical investing on the Yahoo Finance POT message board.

Therefore: If I was the Chinese Emperor....

I would be spending my massive, trilion dollar Sovereign Investment Fund [SIF] savings on gaining 'hen & NPK eggs' control of Elemental P & K mining resources. If I couldn't do it by peaceful financial means....well, 300 million footsoldiers with wheelbarrows will eventually get it done:

http://www.uni-kiel.de/sino/ar/sk/12a_1970s.jpg

Bob Shaw in Phx,Az Are Humans Smarter than Yeast?

Hi totoneila, thanks! and actually I have been jumping in and out of the POT for a while. So far not burnt by the experience but will wait till the fire is lower before joining that Won Ton Bathing Club again. I find the IEF-UN.TO cool tub is a nice place to relax in, should make a nice sauna with the POT for the longer term.

Don't know China well enough to answer.

It's probably a good thing that I have zero chance to become omnipotent dictator of anything. :-)

I do like their policy to reward traitors with a bullet in the back of the head though.

Converting dollars to Euros is not nearly as easy as it seems. If you are talking about future investments, the only real problem is that it will further drive the Euro up and dollar down. In that case, it would be a matter of time before the Europe and the US have a common position against China: the Yuan goes up, or trade barriers do.

If you are talking about taking China's existing treasury holdings and selling them into the market to buy new Euro demonimated assets, it would involve massive capital losses for China. As soon as they started selling treasuries, their value would plunge. China's average price would be very low. Smart observers would move into Euros in advance of China and so their average purchase price of Euro assets would be high.

Then they would have to try to sell their products to a broke US or an angry Europe. And don't tell me an export oriented economy doesn't care about exporting.

Yes, the US screwed the whole thing up. And yes, the party may be coming to an end, but the damage will be much broader and harder to estimate then you seem to think.

Npr had a short talk about the effect on china if there stock market fell(likely as a result from dropping the dollar). they pointed out that due to the way the stock market is made up, mainly most of the top companys are mostly state owned. a drop of 1,000 is the same as our stock market droping 100. in other words, they won't be hurt nearly as much as we would if they dropped the dollar.

In other words, china owns us.

I think it's clear that $100 per barrel is just a way stop on a long upward rise (as well as a decline in the dollar). The two stories quoting the IEA again show just how difficult it will be to go forward, given what's happening in China and India. We all worry about short term cost and availability, yet the real problem is long term. It's becoming blindingly obvious that we must make drastic cuts in CO2 emissions, which means that coal will be a bad choice for the future as an energy source. While the cost of coal is presently low, the cost of CO2 capture will be large and the loss of efficiency would imply less net energy available.

The U.S. government has virtually ignored the energy problem for decades and our present administration has actively papered over the scientific evidence of the impacts of CO2. Even our most liberal representatives in Congress can't seem to face the immediacy of the problem, with proposals to cap emissions by industry starting in 2012, after the next President has completed his (her?) first term. Life is not run that way, as there is only today and such grand plans for the future have a way of evaporating when faced with the clamor of the crowd.

The only way to prevent an inflationary spiral and a crash in the dollar would be to ration oil, thereby handcuffing the "invisible hand" of the market before it strangles us all. Yet, the Presidential candidates still call for more growth and business as usual, promising more jobs and benefits for the working people. One can only hope that we will really see a national discussion of these problems, that this time, things will REALLY BE DIFFERENT!

E. Swanson

The only way to prevent an inflationary spiral and a crash in the dollar would be to ration oil, thereby handcuffing the "invisible hand" of the market before it strangles us all.

I'm far from a market fundamentalist, but I have to disagree with this statement. Rationing doesn't get rid of markets. Even if you outlaw trading of rationed resources, all you are going to do is hamper incentives to reduce use and increase production, as well as create black markets. This is a recipe for disaster.

Cap-and-trade is more interesting, but in general managing markets, whether by force or by finesse, is excruciatingly difficult.

Rationing won't work without a white market to iron out the differences in the distribution. Those who would want/need to use more would pay more for that choice. Those that managed to use less would enjoy extra income. Even the U.S. emergency gasoline rationing plan from 1980 included a white market. The trouble is, the present proposal for a U.S. cap-and-trade for carbon emissions puts the burden on industry, which would then use market prices to adjust emissions. The result at the consumer level would be increased prices, thus inflation in a massive upward spiral. The bottom 80% of the population, who have experienced declining real income, would shoulder the burden of the cuts, while the wealthy few continue living life as usual.

BTW, there is no such thing as a "free market" in oil, since the U.S. oil markets were regulated by the Texas Railroad Commission until 1971, then world production was regulated by OPEC. Then too, FED intrudes in the financial market regularly. These guys profess to be controlling inflation, but since 2001, they haven't been doing so, especially as they've taken to measuring inflation based on so-called "core inflation" calculation, which excludes energy and food prices. Exclude energy and food? Excuse me, aren't these the very foundation of the entire civilized world?

E. Swanson

Black_Dog--
"invisible hand" of the market before it strangles us all-----
More like the "Invisible fist" knocks some idiots awake. Superstition based economic systems (capitalism) always need reality, in this case thermodynamics, to burst their illusionary bubble.

the Presidential candidates still call for ... business as usual

I suspect that at least a few of the candidates are aware of the real oil situation. I saw a video of a speach Bill Clinton gave in Southern California 6-12 months ago where he spoke about imminent peak oil. I just think the campaigns think that they cannot get too far ahead of public understanding of this. If the MSM will not take it on, it probably is too early for the presidential candidates. Maybe someone like Kucinich, who has no real chance, could take it up.

After the nominations are wrapped up in March or so, it might happen. Events are speeding along. Matt Simmons has often predicted that Peak Oil will very soon become the most important political issue and I would not bet against him. It might be the most important issue in the US presidential election. In any case, Bush's main energy initiative, invading Iraq, will certainly be front burner.

The only way to prevent an inflationary spiral and a crash in the dollar would be to ration oil

How about simply taxing oil consumption at European levels? (Phased in over a few years, of course, to allow orderly adaptation.)

That's pretty much guaranteed to lead to enormous cuts in US oil usage. As a nice side-benefit, other taxes could be lowered to make the change revenue-neutral. That would substantially improve the financial incentives for individuals to be energy-efficient, and is probably our best bet for rapid and relatively-easy change. It also dovetails nicely with price increases, as they're much the same market signal.

Politically impossible now, of course, but still probably more plausible than rationing.

''That's pretty much guaranteed to lead to enormous cuts in US oil usage. As a nice side-benefit, other taxes could be lowered to make the change revenue-neutral. ''

That isn't what happens in Europe. We pay high taxes and social security and High duties on Fuel at the same time.

And its biting now with UK fuel at £1.00 (= $2.10) per litre.

That isn't what happens in Europe. We pay high taxes and social security and High duties on Fuel at the same time.

Well, yes, but that's because it's a different social model.

There's nothing stopping a government from using gas taxes to reduce other taxes, even though such a thing might be unlikely.

True enough, but offsetting still enables people to buy gas without the requirement for fuel efficiency because it is without a financial penalty. Europe and the UK had gas guzzlers until the Oil shocks of the 70's and 80's. Then fuel efficiency started to kick in for most as the Fuel Duty Escalator was brought in - Duty increased each year at a level greater than inflation.

Right now, I doubt it would be possible to increase fuel duty in the US. The US system is designed around cheap fuel and the increases in raw price on its own is hurting badly.

Just as we Brits wont wake up to our electrical energy problems without a few blackouts, The US wont wake up until you get lines at gas stations.

Sad, but true.

offsetting still enables people to buy gas without the requirement for fuel efficiency because it is without a financial penalty.

Absolutely true, but it provides them with an incentive not to do so. If you can save $500 a year by driving less, that's not a big deal - a cup of coffee a day; if you can save $3000, it becomes much more compelling. It's basically about making it worthwhile for people to conserve, and then letting them go find their own clever ways to do so.

A little regulation - like fuel efficiency standards for new cars - wouldn't go amiss, though. I'm a big fan of mixed solutions.

The US system is designed around cheap fuel and the increases in raw price on its own is hurting badly.

It doesn't sounds like it's hurting that badly - GDP growth is still very strong (3.5-4%, recovering from the slump earlier). There's enough excess money sloshing around in the US that I really think they'd be fine with much higher gas prices, given a couple years to adjust.

''A little regulation - like fuel efficiency standards for new cars - wouldn't go amiss, though. I'm a big fan of mixed solutions.''

I wholeheartedly agree with that: CAFE Standards are woefully inadequate. And if elevated, then it will change the types of vehicle used. It would be painful and maybe even fatal for some car makers, but $6 dollar gas would be just as painful or fatal for some. Either the US Auto industry recognises this as a fact and acts proactively or someone will come along and eat its lunch anyway.

GDP Growth? Well , not sure about that. To my mind GDP is one of the most corrupted and manipulated metrics along with CPI and Core inflation and Jobless statistics . Not just in the US, but also here in the UK and probably mainland Europe too. Here also, food and fuel and house prices are not counted. I think CPI is based upon the price of lace doilies, buggy whips and crocheting hooks...
It certainly isnt based on anything like food, fuel, energy, housing, schooling, council tax or even haircuts.

GDP Growth? ...

It occurs to me that GDP growth, as quoted by government agencies, is somewhat analogous to crude oil reserves. On some level, the figures represent a 'truth' of sorts. But the actual 'production' represented by, say, median income, has peaked and is declining. So we can tout our vast wealth and GDP growth, just as CERA touts massive reserve growth, while the soup lines begin growing longer. Obvious to me which 'reality' is more real.

GDP Growth? Well , not sure about that.

Whatever you think of how GDP growth is calculated, the number now is quite big compared to the usual number, suggesting - unless there's some evidence that there's been a substantial change in methodology within the last few months - that the economy is doing better now than it had been.

That doesn't necessarily mean the majority of people are doing better, of course, since income distribution is quite skewed, but it does mean the US economy seems to be handling the housing crisis and the run-up in oil prices surprisingly well.

There's already been a lot of discussion at TOD (with numerous links) about the reported 3.9% growth rate. Essentially, that growth rate was distorted by the high price of oil imports in relation to the temporary low price of gasoline. A more realistic growth rate after accounting for this factor has widely been calculated to be around 2%.

Philadelphia Fed President Charles Plosser told the New York Times two days ago that a 4th quarter growth rate of 1 - 1.5% was already built into his forecast.
(http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601068&sid=azFp65UhAU4c&refer=e... and http://www.portfolio.com/news-markets/national-news/reuters/2007/11/06/m...)

Essentially, that growth rate was distorted by the high price of oil imports in relation to the temporary low price of gasoline. A more realistic growth rate after accounting for this factor has widely been calculated to be around 2%.

Cite?

I don't find that at all credible, given what a minor part of the economy spending on oil and gasoline represents - even at $90/bbl, US oil imports of 13Mb/d account for only 3% of US GDP. How is 0.75% of GDP - what the US spent on oil imports in Q307 - supposed to account for 0.5% of GDP growth? You do realize that imports are subtracted from calculated GDP growth, don't you?

Nor do I see how expensive oil and less-expensive gasoline is supposed to provide the claimed effect. Especially considering oil prices weren't unusually high for at least half of Q3 - this price runup only started in mid-August.

Taking a look at the sources of the GDP growth straight from the BEA, we find:

"The increase in real GDP in the third quarter reflected positive contributions from personal consumption expenditures (PCE), exports, federal government spending, equipment and software, nonresidential structures, private inventory investment, and state and local government spending that were partly offset by a negative contribution from residential fixed investment."

The major contributors and annualized rates of change appear to have been:

- Exports (up 16.2% an.)
- Purchases of durable goods (up 4.4% an.)
- Nonresidential fixed investment (up 7.9% an.)
- Federal government spending (up 6.8% an.)

None of those have much to do with oil.

Real GDP flows from an estimate of price inflation. Lower your price inflation estimate and you can increase your real GDP number (you lower nominal GDP less). The same government forecasts nominal oil prices of $95 in 2030. They were quite accurate with their pre-war estimates of Iraq adventure expenses.

Real GDP flows from an estimate of price inflation.

That still doesn't explain your claim that expensive oil and less-expensive gas should cut 2% off Q3's GDP growth rate.

The same government forecasts nominal oil prices of $95 in 2030. They were quite accurate with their pre-war estimates of Iraq adventure expenses.

And those same government forecasters are telling us 3.9% GDP growth rate, so how do they support anything you're saying?

It's not that they all don't care about the problem, its that the majority don't know there is even one to begin with. Ask any american on the street about the state of the electrical grid and 90%+ won't be able to give you the correct answer. That many places are just one unexpectedly hot summer or cold winter away from rolling blackouts or load sheding(shutting off homes in favor of comapny's, warehouses, and manufacturing plants). Same goes for the water situation in some parts of the country or gas in other parts of the country.

Some will use the data of corruption as provided by Enron and claim that any problems are part of a conspiracy.

It's called the iron triangle, look it up.
Also enron was a conspiracy in that the upper management and the accountents knew what was going on and purposfully with held the information so they could milk the stock for as much as it was worth. this happened allot with more then just enron.

load sheding(shutting off homes in favor of comapny's, warehouses, and manufacturing plants)

Actually, that's exactly the opposite of load shedding - industrial customers voluntarily enroll in load shedding programs to receive a break on overall power costs in return for being willing to scale back use to smooth demand peaks.

I knew it was one or the other, i just figured the government would want to shed load from home to companys as to not hurt the economy durring the day.

Load shedding is any planned cutback - whether it's voluntary on the part of the user or not. The term "load shedding" is commonly used overseas the way we would use "rolling blackouts."