194 comments on DrumBeat: November 24, 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
194 comments on DrumBeat: November 24, 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
TOD:Europe
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
- Oilwatch Monthly November 2009
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
- The Bullroarer - Friday 20th November 2009
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“A third of humanity doesn't want to ride bikes anymore; that has profound geopolitical implications.”
—Anne Korin, the co-director of the Institute for the Analysis of Global Security (May 1, 2005)
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.










GAIA Host Collective
We need an Al Gore of PO. What's Bill Clinton doing these days?
Laying low so is wife can win. Which means Billy is out...
Clinton promises solar sunrise, will Ausra deliver?
http://science-community.sciam.com/thread.jspa?threadID=300004242
http://www.ausra.com/
Really cool map! Thanks!
What Peak Oil-- The rich, famous and influential prepare to hear the secret to climate-safe energy
http://environment.independent.co.uk/climate_change/article3191512.ece
Al Gore will probably let us in on the secret for a price.
I'm sure anyone who's willing to invest will be let in on the secret. ;-)
My guess is some kind of nanotech. They said it was "micro-technology."
Jimmy Carter tried and failed as president to wake the world up to Peak Oil, but then gave up. He could have continued after and could have led a Peak Oil movement, but chose the the peace maker route,
Bill Clinton has talked about imminent peak oil. Matt Simmons mentioned that fact in a recent broadcast appearance and I saw Clinton talk about it in a video of a speech at a Southern California University this last spring. It would be political suicide for Hillary to raise it right now, before the MSM acknowledges it, but I am sure they are ready for when it does hit. It probably will be an issue before the 11/08 election.
I've also seen a photograph of Bill carrying a copy of The Party is Over.
http://www.richardheinberg.com/node/170/view
Former US President Bill Clinton was reading about peak oil this summer, specifically, Richard Heinberg's book The Party's Over: Oil, War and the Fate of Industrial Societies.
This week in the New Yorker, David Remnick profiles Bill Clinton. Here, with Blake Eskin, Remnick discusses the ex-President’s legacy and Hillary Clinton’s political future. Specific excerpt posted below:
You write that Clinton rejected Gerald Ford as a model for the post-Presidency. But is Clinton at all a man of leisure?
He plays a hell of a lot of golf and he’s a voracious reader. His library’s got a lot of books about policy, a lot of history, a lot of Presidential biography, and a lot of books on religion—that’s a sincere interest. His taste in fiction, although I don’t think it’s limited to this, seems to be of a lower brow: he loves thrillers and police novels and stuff like that. I borrowed a book from him that he had just read—“The Party’s Over: Oil, War, and the Fate of Industrial Societies,” by Richard Heinberg, not exactly summer reading—and it was full of underlinings and what looked like the most serious undergraduate’s markings, with lots of exclamation points.
Some time ago, Bill Clinton said that when he was president no one told him about Peak Oil. Sure Bill, and you didn't inhale pot either when you were smokin it at university.
Who before the end of Clinton's second term was talking about peak oil besides Colin Campbell and did any of them have access to Clinton's ear? Did any of the people preparing Clinton's briefing notes know of the idea and, if so, did any of them take it seriously? Not likely.
I suspect that, in this case, Clinton was giving an accurate version of events. He's not running for office now, so why would he lie?
Matt Simmons said in one interview that he told both Bush and Clinton about peak oil.
Energy Sectry. Richardson came back from a Middle East trip in Feb/March 2000 with the discovery that there was essentially no spare oil production capacity. I assume he told his boss, but time was short to do much of anything in the remaining months of Clinton's term.
Simmons got this information and passed it to Bush via cousin. He may also have told Clinton as well. Simmons I think (WAG) connected "short term" problem to longer term Hubbert Depletion.
As far as I can piece together, that is the background history.
Alan
When?
While Clinton was in office. I remember reading about it back in 2005, but can't find the link. It was an interview with Simmons. (It used to be that only a handful of links turned up when you searched on Matt Simmons' name. Now there are tons.)
Here's a mention in a article archived at EB, though it's not the one I remember:
This is all very nebulous, nothing firm. Did Simmons warn Clinton about Peak OIL while he was President? An oil shortage, like the one we had in the late 70s and the other one in the 80s, had nothing to do with peak oil.
If Clinton says he was never warned about PEAK OIL during the time of his presidency, we need far more evidence than has been presented here to say he was lying!
And who in the administration was warned of anything? Was it the President himself or someone else in the administration who neglected, for whatever reason, to tell the President?
I find it rather astonishing that people make such serious accusations on such flimsy evidence.
Ron Patterson
Simmons says he did, at least as I recall. Perhaps it was a misunderstanding by a reporter. Someone should ask him. Kunstler did ask him how Bush reacted, but so far as I know, no one has asked him how Clinton reacted.
In any case, it doesn't mean I'm accusing Clinton of lying. He was president of United States. He probably had hundreds, even thousands of people briefing him about various problems while he was in office. Maybe he simply didn't remember.
Remember what Tom Whipple said about politicians. Unless you can give them a solid date, and it's imminent, it's simply not a priority for them. Not because they don't care, but because they have so many other things to worry about.
See my comments below about Clinton and the CIA, if this doesn't clear things up, I don't think I can help you. As for serious allegations about Clinton lying, hmmmmmmmmm most Democrats I know would say he lied/lies often. Maybe read some biographies about Willy Clinton.
Right, Simmons told Clinton about peak oil last spring. But we are talking about during the Clinton administration. What evidence do you, or anyone else have, that Clinton was told about peak oil during the time he was president. That would be very extraordinary because virtually no one was talking about peak oil during the Clinton administration.
Well, there was Colin Campbell, and Jay Hanson, and a couple of others. But I don't think they talked to Clinton.
Ron Patterson
Cjwirth, got a source for that bit of history? To whom did Bill Clinton say that and when? We don't like people to make up crap on this list. When you make such a statement you need to post your source.
I am not saying that Bill did not say that, but you saying that he said it is just not enough.
And what is so strange about no one telling Bill Clinton about that while he was President? Exactly what percentage of people had ever heard of Peak Oil before January of 2001. It was after that date when I first heard about peak oil. I think it was from Jay Hanson when I first heare of peak oil, sometime in the summer of 2001. I would not at all be surprised that no one explained it to Bill before that date.
Ron Patterson
Clinton: not briefed on peak oil
http://www.energybulletin.net/18138.html
That was real hard to find.
/sarcasm
And what, may I ask, is so shocking about that? No one told me about peak oil during the Clinton administration either.
I believe Clinton when he says no one told him about Peak Oil during his administration. Why would anyone doubt that?
Cynicism can sometimes get so bad it just looks ridiculous. And to cynically say that Clinton was lying when he says no one told him about peak oil is cynicism bordering on the absurd.
Ron Patterson
And to cynically say that Clinton was lying when he says no one told him about peak oil is cynicism bordering on the absurd.
Oh yes! You are so right! Because people never lie, and the history of leaders is filled with truth and helpfulness to the ruled.
You have lifted the veil for all!
I heard about it back in the '70s.
It faded into the background, until fall 2005. Then I watched Rita mow a swath across the GoM and remembered Hubbert.
Darwinian, The CIA, DOD, and the National Security establishment exist mainly to make sure the oil flows. If Bill Clinton did not know about Peak Oil then he wasn't President of the USA. Because they have access to Saudi data, the CIA has the best information on Peak Oil. Oil is what Mideast politics is all about.
Bill Clinton: "The third thing I've learned about climate change, this is very important, is I had -- I was reading a book the other day by a guy just bashing the living hell out of me about saying that he was certain the CIA briefed me once a week on how America was running out of oil and I did nothing serious about it. Of course he ignored what we tried to do and got our brains beat out doing.
But that's not true. To the best of my knowledge, I never had a security briefing which said what
some of these very serious but conservative petroleum geologists say, which is they think that either
now or before the decade's out, we'll reach peak oil production globally and with the rise of China
and India and others coming along, unless we can dramatically reduce our oil usage, we will run out
of recoverable oil within 35 to 50 years." (A Conversation with Bill Clinton, Friday July 7, 2006)
http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:r12MLN3VKuEJ:www.aspeninstitute.org...
Clinton said "to the best of my knowledge." What nonsense. Of course he knew, the CIA and everybody knew about Peak Oil since 1977 when the National Academy of Science published this report: http://books.nap.edu/catalog.php?record_id=11771
The NAS study pegged the peak in the 1990s. They were right on target, but the global economy slowed considerably in the late 1970s and 1980s. If you look at oil production over this period, you will see that they got the peak right, but production was slowed due to recessions. Peak Oil is old stuff.
I don't include the speech of Rear Admiral Hyman Rickover who identified Peak Oil in 1957: http://www.theoildrum.com/node/2724
If all these people knew, so did policy wonk Bill Clinton, but he won't admit it and then face criticism that he did not warn us. I have been warning my students since 1982. If I knew about it, surely Bill Clinton as President of the United States of Steal the World's Oil would know. Finally, the public trashed Jimmy Carter, a student of Rickover, who did try to warn the American public masses are asses. Thus Bill Clinton knew that if he told the public that we're running out, he knew they would say, shut up chump, your job is to get more oil.
But of course, we all know that! The CIA, created in 1949, from the Centeral Intelligence Group that was created by Truman in 1947. Hell even Truman knew about Peak Oil and he created the CIA just to keep the oil flowing. Hell, everybody knows that.
It is indeed a pity that this kind of crap pops up on this list from time to time. Most people who post here are responsible and do not exaggerate or engage in such stupid hyperbole or dream up wierd conspiracy theories.
I say again it is a pity that we must put up with this type of crap from time to time. But I suppose it comes with the territory.
Ron Patterson
This is what I said, not what you said I said, "The CIA, DOD, and the National Security establishment exist mainly to make sure the oil flows." Read the NAS report. Everybody knew about Peak Oil, meaning of course everybody who is keeping the flow of oil going. You might due better to read more and deal with others with more information and less emotion.
Here is your 'wierd conspiracy theory' from Wiki...Ron, you should really do what you urge of others...a simple Google search will turn up tons of hits connecting various US government organizations to continuing the flow of ME oil. This is really a no-brainer and yet you call it 'stupid Hyperbole'...I really question your motives because I believe that you are too intelligent to believe what you are posting here at times. Notice that the CIA operation to assinate this democratically elected Iranian prime minister was run by Kermit Roosevelt Jr...No conspiracy here, move along, move along...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mohammed_Mossadegh
Mohammad Mosaddeq (Mossadeq (help·info)) (Persian: محمد مصدق Moḥammad Moṣaddeq, also Mosaddegh or Mossadegh) (19 May 1882 – 5 March 1967) served as the Prime Minister of Iran[1][2] from 1951 to 1953. He was democratically elected to the parliament, and as leader of the nationalists was twice appointed prime minister by Mohammad Reza Pahlavi, the Shah of Iran, after a positive vote of inclination by the parliament.[3] Mossadegh was a nationalist and passionately opposed foreign intervention in Iran. He was also the architect of the nationalization of the Iranian oil industry, which had been under British control through the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company, today known as British Petroleum (BP).
He was eventually removed from power on August 19, 1953, by military intervention. The coup d'état was supported and funded by the British and U.S. governments and was led by General Fazlollah Zahedi [4]. The American operation to encourage it was run by CIA agent Kermit Roosevelt, Jr.,[5][6] the grandson of U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt, and came to be known as Operation Ajax,[5] after its CIA cryptonym, and as the "28 Mordad 1332" coup, after its date on the Iranian calendar.[7] Dr. Mosaddeq was imprisoned for three years and subsequently put under house arrest until his death. He is, in many countries, considered a symbol of anti-imperialism.
Which is not what he complained about. What he complained about was:
Your links show that those government groups are interested in continuing the flow of oil. The original claim was that those groups exist mainly to ensure that flow.
That kind of massive overstatement is pretty textbook hyperbole.
A choice quote from a speech March 28, 2006 at the London Business School,
Clinton on peak oil and global warming: (Energy Bulletin)
Remember that Clinton was prevented from accomplishing much of anything in the last 6 years of his tenure at the White House. I agree, if Hillary wins the nomination, it'll probably come up during the campaign.