206 comments on DrumBeat: November 28, 2007
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206 comments on DrumBeat: November 28, 2007
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It looks like we are entering the Eremozoic Era.
If you Google the term you can find a number of links. The term was coined, of course, by biologist E.O. Wilson.
Check out this article by him located at:
http://raysweb.net/specialplaces/pages/wilson.html
Wilson begins chapter 9 of his book "The Creation" with this comment:
"...what I fear most is pervasive combination of religious and secular ideology of a kind that sees little or no harm in the destruction of the Creation."
Wilson believes that this sixth great exctinction is largely anthropogenic, and that our species can also act to save at least enough of our ecosystem to survive.
If we do survive, it will be on a planet that is much more hostile to our species, and may be barely recognizable by this century's end.
The discussion we need to have must include insights from elder scientists like Wilson so that we can plan individual lives and public policy based on reality rather than wishful thinking.
Two 4 part series here quite interesting. If either are the case global warming or cooling we are in for a world of hurt. If the cooling is indeed the case it could be quite catastrophic. But then again the sad thing is if the cooling is indeed the case nobody is prepared for it in the slightest...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FOLkze-9GcI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vN06JSi-SW8
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCXDISLXTaY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bpQQGFZHSno
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VDX2ExKYyqw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iP4mYcrd_18
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oAUdDLTLXGU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SDiJyr0TK6E
Judge for yourself. I have moved myself to the fence again.
I never think the world is black and white so there must be grey area. This is where I am right now in the grey trying to make sense of it. I see this data as reputable and therefore considerable.
Professor Cahtah makes some good, interesting points. Among them: climate change, like peak oil, will be known with certainty only in hindsight.
The other point, which I believe he misses (sorry only watched first clip), is that our species has used this last ten thousand year period of nice weather to overshoot sustainable limits. Again in hindsight, we shall only know how far we've overshot when the next not-so-nice period arrives. I'm guessing a factor of ten or so. Come to think of it, peak oil also figures into the overshoot.
But the indisputable science behind AGW is that CO2 does indeed scatter thermal infrared. And we are indeed increasing the level of CO2 in the atmosphere. This effect will mean warmer nights, warmer winters, and a climate which is different than it would otherwise have been.
So let's hope for his predicted little ice age to precisely cancel the AGW event. :)
Not only that, 80% of the growth has happened in just the last century.
Ice ages appear to be caused by Milankovich cycles, and we are inexorably headed into the next ice age, perhaps in the next 10,000 years. The best thing would be that AGW defers the onset of the next ice age, some scientists say it already has (Ruddiman).
In terms of climate change, AGW is a little warm up exercise. Surviving the next ice age is the real event.
On the other hand it is quite viable that we are just entering another Warming Period equivalent to that of the Medieval Times and the Roman period. In neither case did the world come to the end, although there were some quite severe droughts, as I have noted elsewhere, and there likely will be again.
However, these are chemically forced climate changes. And unlike the volcanoes that may have influenced earlier climate changes, these chemical changes to the atmosphere are still changing, and at a steadily increasing rate.
AFAIK, there is no prior historic model for the type of chemical experiment that we are running on our atmosphere and oceans.
Best Hopes for uncontrolled, ad hoc chemical experiments,
Alan
someone's gonna put their eye out
Somehow I don't think that we have had volcanoes regularly spitting out the necessary volumes for the required durations to generate any of the many previous cycles. The periods lasted hundreds of years, which is why there is concern that with the return to one of these cycles the dry periods for parts of the world will likely cause serious problems - as they have in the past.
I do think that there is a good probability that a massive input of a one or a few supervolcanos can shift the "equilibrium" state from one semi-stable mode to another.
That such a single or few pulse forcing can cause century+ long changes is frightening, since humanity has built EVERYTHING, and adapted agriculture to the way things are (and have been for the last half century or so). ANY change, natural or man-made is a disaster !
If, as you hypothesize, we are in another natural warming cycle, then that adds increased urgency, to the point of panic, to STOP MINING COAL NOW !
To add increased man-made warming (Greenhouse Gases are a physical reality and cannot be denied) to a natural warming trend will too quickly lead to a cascading failure of the world as we know it. The likely consequences of too rapid climate change are social collapse, war and a massive die-off.
The costs of doing without coal are fair lower, just more immediate.
Best Hopes that we are NOT in another natural warming trend !
Alan
I you're still reading this thread (I'll post it to you on another), two articles you might be interested in.
1) The API does US Tours:
http://sacurrent.com/news/story.asp?id=67787
By comparison, the other majors have spent more modestly, averaging around $2.5 million each this year and $3.8 million in ’06.
Meanwhile, the investments made by Chevron and ConocoPhillips in renewable technologies that could potentially break America’s oil “addiction,” as President Bush has termed it, is still less than one percent of their annual profits (.3 and .2, respectively), according to recent news reports. BP and Shell invest a fraction more. And ExxonMobil, of course, is NA.
“The bottom line is that for all these companies it’s about oil,” said Steve Kretzmann, executive director of D.C.-based Oil Change International. “Any attempt to sell themselves as anything other than oil companies is disingenuous.”
It becomes obvious fast that Bob isn’t in San Antonio to make any great promises about fighting Global Warming or significantly greening his company. He tells our group straightaway that the next 30 years belong to oil, natural gas, and coal. In the meantime, ConocoPhillips will be “keeping a watch on global climate change and our water resources.”
2) a-Hanson compares coal trains to Death Trains of the Holocaust-stands by it.
http://climateprogress.org/2007/11/29/more-on-the-coal-campaign-in-kansa...
b-More on the Coal Campaign in Kansas
In true journalistic fashion, Andy Revkin of the New York Times dug deeper into the controversial coal campaign run in Kansas after the state rejected a new coal-plant. Curiously, he surfaced with some interesting investment numbers with regards to Venezuelan coal.
For background, see Grist and Climate Progress’s discussion. In short, after the state refused to allow the construction of a new coal-fired plant, a local utility conspired with a larger energy firm to run a smear campaign against the decision, accusing it of supporting foreign energy enemies like Hugo Chavez.
Sure volcanoes have huge amounts of sulfur dioxide and CO2, Note sulfur dioxide from a super-volcano would cause sulfuric acid YAY!!!
In any case these are minor nobody has mentioned the huge discharges of dust look at what st helens did the year I was born in 1982-83 winter. Think about it for a bit and realize that dust is truly a driving factor....
Dust even kills hurricanes. Drier = less hurricanes. Sounds good on paper but has terrible other consequences.
HO,
I don't think its just one thing. Volcano and Sunspots, with/or because of Chandler effect,.. and other. I saw a post the other day that had an interesting tidbit. There have been 5 earthquakes 8 or greater in 2007(I think good record keeping goes back only 33 or so years). The average is 1 per year. Those are big shakers. Magma is on the move around the world. Magma raising Yellowstone by 3 to 4 inches. Maybe not "dangerous" but its magma on the move and its near the surface. Volcano's are not a subject that is well understood imo.
The earth is 80 percent or so water. 70 percent or so very deep water is my guesstimate. We can only observe whats above surface for the most part, and new research shows that the floor of the seabed has many more volcano's than previously thought, and rifts are more active than they thought, some thought dead are active, and active ones are putting out more lava than they suspected.. I have posted a link (s) to this research/facts a few weeks back.
Not only that, from recent discoveries (from sea volcano's and the rifts/plates), how a volcano's and rift magma come up is not what they thought. The plates near the ring of fire have revealed that the theory's of past didn't fit what they have discovered. Sources of magma not connected to plates rubbing movements basically as I recall.
For an ice age you need cold and h20 to create ice, snow for the albedo effect.
Even though its warming, an argument can be made that it is cold enough right now to start a new ice age. Lots of moisture and cold air in the winter this year could extend snow cover because of the amounts. Last year Europe was complaining about ski resorts. Now and in many other places they are already open. Early heavy snow, if it continues and then late snows, which will create shorter summers.
The ice cores and earth samples show that ice ages don't take 10,000 years. It happens much quicker. Hundreds, maybe less. Effects from the change in ten years of its beginning could be a disaster. The Pentagon released a report that discussed a shut down of the North Atlantic Conveyor would be felt in Europe
(with population effects) within ten years I recall.
I watch the conveyor, and its been "odd" and sluggish from satellite images.
The sunspot number has shown a possible correlation to climate changes. A prediction had been made for a very intense period of sunspots. They thought it should have already started. They pushed it back as it became obvious that the prediction was not correct. Now they have backed off the intensity. Most people don't give a hoot about the sunspot number and I bet very few know whats been happening (or really not happening) for some time now. I recall reading we had a period of 23 days (in a row) at the least, with not one single sunspot in the last couple of months. And the count has been very low. Is there a correlation between the late winter in the southern hemisphere with abnormal late cold and snowfall. The early snowfalls in Europe and NA. Hard to say, because they thought we should be in the begging of an active sunspot period. When/if is that going to start. But it is/can be observed and we might see it confirmed in a decade or so.