 | Home Heating in the USA: A Comparison of Forests with Fossil Fuels | The Oil Drum | DrumBeat: December 15, 2007 |  |
| The Earth and Energy Round-Up: December 12th/15th 2007 | The Oil Drum: Canada | The Finance Round-Up: December 19th 2007 | |
105 comments on The Finance Round-Up: December 14th 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
105 comments on The Finance Round-Up: December 14th 2007
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
User login
Personnel
Archives
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.
GAIA Host Collective
Ouch! Stoneleigh your hurting me fer sure %}
I'm sure you saw this from CR;
"Consumers Use the 401(k) ATM"
http://calculatedrisk.blogspot.com/2007/12/consumers-use-401k-atm.html
IMO this is the negative result of manipulation of the economic realities by TPTB.
I understand that they have to do what ever they can to avoid economic collapse, or at least appear to be doing so, but without the correct information people WILL make bad decisions like this.
I swear to buddha it looks more and more like this is being orchestrated.
One would like to think that at least some people realize what is going on and just plain cash in the retirement plans despite penalties and move them into inflation indexed treasuries or gold.
Unless these plans are invested exclusively in guaranteed treasuries, and almost none are, they will be worth little or nothing eventually. This does not even consider inflation and the possibility of withdrawals being blocked.
musashi, I agree that a few far-sighted folks may well take their futures into their own hands.
I'm vested in a Defined Pension Plan; up to a couple of years ago I was delighted that I had a benefit that's a dying breed. Now I feel the oposite. The managers bought whatever the brokerages were touting that month, which included SIV and subprime CDO paper. I can opt to self-direct my account, which lets me "choose" between a "growth mutual fund" or an annuity from an insurance company (which I'll bet is up to its eyeballs in "high yield" paper). No mention of gold or oil-service ETF's; I'm sure that's just an oversight that will be soon corrected...HAHAHAHAHA.
So now I'm doing ELP with a vengeance, as I've realized that my retirement is pretty much up to me.
PLAN, PLANt, PLANet
Errol in Miami
No need for orchestration, methinks.
With home equity withdrawals off the table, people have nowhere left to turn but plastic debt, of which we've seen countless stories and examples, and of course their pension provisions, of any shape and form that they can get their hands on.
I'm not familiar with the ins and outs of these plans and funds, but if it's anything like I presume it is, there's hefty premiums on early withdrawals.
The deepest tragedy lies in the cases where this "equity" is used merely to pay off mortgage and credit card debt.
The penalty typically is only 10%, and of course depending on the type of plan if the funds were not taxed going in then they are taxed as regular income. The penalty only applies for people younger then 59 1/2
There also are ways to make emergency withdrawals but for short periods and then they have to be paid back in.
If you withdraw on Jan 01 then the tax isn't due until 15 1/2 months later, but the banks may take some of it out up front to try and deter withdrawals.
People that go into retirement accounts to make payments on RE they can not afford are delusional, they will default later anyway in almost every case. These accounts are federally protected even in the case of bankruptcy and are the best (only?) hedge honest people that proceed in good faith have.
They dangle all these relief bills out there to give the middle class hope of a bailout if they can just hang in there long enough. It's a trap.
They will never help middle class people, there are no FEMA free money credit cards for the flooded cities in WA state, they are just trying to pick the middle class clean.
Bingo, I think we have a winner.
Couldn't agree more.
MEW, 401k, plastic... We still forgot one option:
If people default on the 396% interest loans, what then? Look for a rash of busted kneecaps and bodies turning up in rivers with feet encased in concrete.
I swear to buddha it looks more and more like this is being orchestrated.
Soup, Read this post from the previous Fin. RU.
(Read the whole article.)
http://canada.theoildrum.com/node/3355#comment-276849
John
Thanks Samsara - I read the snips the other day and intended to get to the whole article but...
Wow! I can't talk right now... just WOW!
I notice he is writing this from the relative safety of CHILE.
souperman, I second that WOW! Maund's analysis unfortunately fits the facts...
I'll also note that another wise macroeconomic writer, Enrico Orlandini, has chosen to live in Peru. I'm seeing a pattern here...
PLAN, PLANt, PLANet
It sort of dovetails with Ilargi's Goldman post below.
Goldman has (and had) undue influence over the Fed, Treasury and some foreign central banks. Their people are everywhere.
This much is a fact.
The question is where does Goldman's loyalty lie, and who pulls their strings.
Add the all powerful PAC that basically determines which candidates face off in the elections.
You tell me who is controlling the show.
You tell me who is controlling the show.
That's the over arching question isn't it?
I don't know, but I know more than I did a few years ago.
Here's a few clues. If nothing else if you digest all of this you will have no illusions on how money works or where it goes.
Enjoy, (sort of)
John
----------------------
First, Goldman Sachs and the Gov. There is NO daylight between them.
Sachs does Gov.
http://tinyurl.com/22dlpe
And THEIR bank, The Fed.
AMERICA'S FORGOTTEN WAR AGAINST THE CENTRAL BANKS
Here's a tid bit.
from 1929 to 1933 11,630 banks of the total of 26,401 in the United States to go bankrupt. This allowed central bankers to buy up rival banks and whole corporations at a deep discount.
It is interesting to note that biographies of J.P. Morgan, Joe F. Kennedy, J.D. Rockefeller and Bernard Baruch indicate that they all managed to transfer their assets out of the stock market and into gold just before the crash of 1929.
{Note the: 11,630 small family Savings and loans that became Fed banks.}
http://www.financialsense.com/fsu/editorials/dollardaze/2007/1020.html
Watch these video's on Money and The Fed.
Court Case involving the Fed.
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/criminal.html
Fed backers
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/rothschild.html
This one. Copy it to your disk. PDF warning. An incredible book of a LOT LOT of American History of the Fed.
The Secrets of the Federal Reserve
http://www.sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2007/02/125026.pdf
IMF / WORLD BANK DESTROYING COUNTRIES
http://www.unitypublishing.com/Government/IMF.htm
John F. Kennedy vs The Federal Reserve
http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/JFK.html
Thanks for putting that together Samsara.
I had some of that but there are some real jewels in there.
Sure would like to get my hands on a copy of that USA Banker's Magazine, August 25 1924.
When does something like this go from being conspiracy theory to OMG come on everyone lets waste these effers?
And to add conspiracy to conspiracy, check this out from 2005...
And this goes to that for the NOC's in nationalist countries that actually work FOR their citizens it makes sense to withhold as much oil production as they can get away with.
Reminds me of Catherine Austin Fitts' discussion of the Red Button:
http://www.solari.com/articles/MoneyChangersInterview.htm
She argues that no one wants to stop unethical behavior (press the Red Button) because it would mean giving up our investments and pensions.
It never occurred to me until recently that TPTB would press the Red Button (stop the economy) in order to create Demand Destruction and slow down FF consumption.
It never occurred to me until recently that TPTB would press the Red Button (stop the economy)
World power consumption = population X rate of consumption
And
World power consumption (seems to) = World power production.
So if World power consumption is dropping due to less production, will the population be adjusted or will the rate of consumption be adjusted? Ya know - if there are TPTB who can bend things to their will for their convience?
how do the canadians here feel about a goldman alumnus set to take over as head of the central bank? time to dump the loonie for gold! oh wait, goldman just issued a short gold for 2008 recommendation. these are the same criminals hugely responsible for the mortgage mess, yet they claim to be perfectly hedged and have profited by shorting the subprime indices.
Not a good sign, but it was to be expected when we elected MonkeyBoy Jr.-on the positive side, we lucked out by not having him as our fearless leader when Condi was talking about Hussien turning NYC into a melting crater.
souperman2 said,
"I swear to buddha it looks more and more like this is being orchestrated."
I don't swear to buddha....but yeah, it's a whipped hysteria the likes of which is only possible in the internet era...as deepthroat said, "Follow the money."
You will see assets selling to the winners for a dime on the dollar once the blue and white collar schmoe's are shaken dry....
Years ago, I was told that to measure who had the power in a culture, look for the tallest buildings...the Egyptian priesthood had the pyramids, the Gothic priesthood had the Cathedrals, the Dutch began to surpass those with the "counting houses" of the Colonial traders....now look at any major city...
The tall towers belong to the financial services (misnomer that) and the medical community....
We are seeing a battle as to who can get to the boomers remaining money and investments...the biggest nest egg in history. At first, it looked like the medical community would get it....but the financial/banking community needed a way to get there first....break their investments down, and get the assets they have worked for on the cheap. They found it. Of course, many "post boomer" gen X and Y young are going to get caught up in the slaughter....but like the boomers in the 1970's, they have time in front of them....for the 45 plus year olds now, they (we, I should say) are running out of time.
These people will have to be VERY SHARP to avoid being driven into panic and making bad choices, or simply being confused by the media hysteria and panic machine, which is now working overtime. Let's admit it, we all will have to be VERY SHARP. This is a well organized attack, and will strike in ways that are as yet totally unexpected. Closer to TOD's agenda, those who have been amazed at the way in which "Peak Oil" has suddenly been embraced by the MSM....think about it. It now fits the agenda of the financial community.
But yeah, it's orchestrated so well it would make Leonard Bernstein jealous. :-)
RC
ThatsIt, it's too late for "These people will have to be VERY SHARP to avoid being driven into a panic and making bad choices..."
IMO they already made their bad choices. Rather than being panicked, they were seduced: into cash-out refies and 'investment' RE and SUV payments and credit card purchases of plasma TV's. They are now contractually obliaged to pay off that debt and bankruptcy has been "reformed". The trap is already sprung. The average 'consumer' can squirm around, or even chew off a leg (cash out the 401K), but trapped they are.
PLAN, PLANt, PLANet
Errol in Miami
...and bankruptcy has been "reformed".
With all the "HELP" the people, You Won't see them do anyything to the bankruptcy laws.