<This Week in Petroleum 12-12-07 The Oil Drum Freedom from Oil - a review>

155 comments on DrumBeat: December 13, 2007

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

| Show without comments | PDF version

chapterwon on December 13, 2007 - 10:25am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

Please note that it is by no means assured that Bush will even get a chance to veto the Energy Bill. Rumor has it that it currently has support of 59 Senators... one short of the number needed to end the inevitable filibuster. As of yesterday, several GOP Senators were still undecided.

The Bill does have some big problems (e.g., big ethanol subsidies, and no Renewable Electricity Standards), but it also has lots of good stuff, including greatly expanded solar credits, and continued support for wind and other carbon-free energy sources (including tidal, for the first time). It also subsidizes PHEVs, EVs, plugin-conversion kits and even has a token subsidy for bicycle commuting. It also subsidizes energy efficiency for homeowners and appliances. So overall, its a step forwards and towards sanity, (even though I'm sure many here could craft a better bill).

But right now, its this bill or nothing. The Bill will be voted on today. See here for my post on the subject, complete with a list of wavering Senators. If one of these Senators is yours, please call. Its this Bill or nothing.. and this Bill is better than nothing.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
neon9 on December 13, 2007 - 10:51am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thanks, I've called my senator, Mr. Martinez. As you say, it could be much better, but for right now it's the best we've got.

I heard that CA just won a court case that might end up bringing more efficient cars to the market than this would anyway.

I would post it but Leanan probably already has :-)

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
chapterwon on December 13, 2007 - 11:40am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thanks for calling. Sadly, it only won 59-40 and the Dems, for some reason, decided not to actually make the Repubs filibuster. They'll restore the subsidies for oil drilling and try again.

Senate Republicans blocked a broad energy bill Thursday because it included billions of dollars in new taxes on the biggest oil companies.

Democratic leaders fell one vote short, 59-40, in getting the 60 votes needed to overcome a GOP filibuster. Democrats said they would strip the taxes from the legislation to move the bill forward.

http://www.examiner.com/a-1102888~Senate_Republicans_Block_Energy_Bill.html

Keep calling.. they probably need another 8 votes to overcome the probable veto.

There are many things about our Congress I just don't understand. This vote is one of them.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
SacredCowTipper on December 13, 2007 - 12:07pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Corruption

That is the beginning, middle, and end of our troubles. We either clean house in 2008 or we sink like a stone. We can't restore the velocity of money, such as it will be post peak, if every uninvolved party can get in the middle of someone else's business. There is great need to cut away deadwood in both the business and political realm.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
shaman on December 13, 2007 - 12:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I have to disagree with your assesment, SCT. What happens in the 2008 elections in the U.S. is about as close to irrelevant as can be. The structure of our government mediates against anything but reform. The "founding fathers" knew this and designed it that way. Their expectation was that should the government truly get in the way of effective change, that the people would overthrow it.

But the real problem has little to with our government, it has to do with broader constructs of our society as a whole (and as we spread it globally). The government is a lever to effect social change, but its reach and impact is limited. You can hypothesize all the wonderful policy changes you like, but unless the broader culture supports that change, you are merely spitting into the wind.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
SacredCowTipper on December 13, 2007 - 12:33pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Yes, my unstated assumption is that mobs of unemployed people are going to want change. They won't like it when they hear it means powering down, but if there aren't any alternatives ...

Well, I can hope, can't I?

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
oldhippie on December 13, 2007 - 12:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

It would be refreshing indeed to see a mob. That would
mean that ordinary people had understood something,
had thought something. It would mean that a mob had
hope, purpose, direction.
I expect something more inchoate than a mob.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
shaman on December 13, 2007 - 12:50pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

yeah, but being unemployed allows for so much more time watching TV...

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
710 on December 13, 2007 - 5:21pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

A few years ago there were plenty of mobs in Argentina who widely protested corruption, indeed protested the entire system. And a few short years later, the public were voting for the same corrupt officials. Source: The Take, by Naomi Klein and Avi Lewis.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
oldhippie on December 13, 2007 - 6:44pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

For a rather different take on political
suicide and how a polity terminates, see
Aristotle, The Politics (suggest McKeon trans)

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
oldhippie on December 13, 2007 - 6:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Oops, should be a reply to hightrekker below

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
hightrekker on December 13, 2007 - 12:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

SCT--
There is no evidence reformist policies work (just take a look around).
Systems rarely commit suicide. All major changes politically happened in the streets outside the system. American, French, Russian Revolutions had nothing to do with reform within the system. It can go the other way also, as the Spanish Civil War proves.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
WNC Observer on December 13, 2007 - 12:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Getting rid of the two corrupt political parties is the only way we are going to have any hope of getting rid of corruption in politics. The only way that is ever going to happen is if people stop voting for them. This means first of all telling the people that keep screaming that a vote for a 3rd party or independent candidate is a "throwaway vote" to shove it. The only throwaway votes are the ones not cast at all or the ones cast for the perpetuation of this corrupt system.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
stevelevine on December 13, 2007 - 1:40pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I'm not sure we are talking corruption. Reid simply doesn't seem to have a killer instinct, and is forever blinking in the face of adversity. The GOP sees that, gives him a head fake, and he crumbles.

Steve LeVine, author
The Oil and the Glory
http://www.oilandglory.com

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
MacDuff on December 13, 2007 - 2:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I am dubious of that assertion - the Dem's rely on the same large contributors (corporations and wealthy patrons) that the Repub's do

I think going into this the Dem's knew it was safe to support the bill, because they knew the Repub's would filibuster it - OR if it somehow squeaked through, Bush would veto the bill. This way the Dem's can say "WE all voted for it!" but oil gets to keep it's nice fat subsidies...

win-win for everybody but the American people - in other words, business as usual

Our companies are like that guy looking at that last tree on Easter Island, ax in hand - and our "representatives" are some chief standing at his side reminding him how important building the stone Gods are to the economy of the island

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Arclite on December 13, 2007 - 11:06pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

This analysis on DailyKos by Thereisnospoon argues that the Dems are intentionally letting the Republicans block stuff in order to make the electorate hate them even more thus boosting Dem elections in 2008.

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/12/13/3559/2099/574/421499

Cynical? Yeah, but it's hard to argue against, given the Dem's record.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
AlanfromBigEasy on December 13, 2007 - 11:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Which is a better choice ?

A "C-" Energy Bill this Year, or a "B-" Energy Bill in 15 months ?

The R's are going to lose 5 to 9 Senate seats next year. Hopefully 9 (or even 10).

Yes, politicians play politics.

Alan

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Dennis Brumm on December 14, 2007 - 6:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Perhaps the "team" concept endemic in everything we do doesn't always have a useful purpose. It wanes some during crises, but doesn't during pending crises.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Leanan on December 13, 2007 - 11:18pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I don't think the Democrats are that organized or that smart. I think they are remembering how the GOP Congress was humiliated by Bill Clinton during that government shutdown. In short, I think they're chicken to stand up to the Shrub.

And no, I don't think it helps them in the next election. I think a lot of people are getting disillusioned with the Democratic Congress. If the voters are mad, and I think they are, they have a tendency to "vote the rascals out." That tends to hurt the incumbents. Which is good if you're in the minority, not so good if you're in the majority.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
SacredCowTipper on December 13, 2007 - 11:26pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I'll agree with this one on some days - our Democratic dominated Congress needs to grow a pair, put a collar on the out of control Bush administration, and then we might have something worth cheering.

Other days I think they're playing a very, very dangerous game of chicken with a nuclear armed nutjob and doing a pretty good job of it. If they push too hard all at once and Bush snaps what then?

It is a mess and no mistake about it. The second order of the day after dealing with corruption will be reigning in the power of the executive branch which was accumulated during the Bush years.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Samsara on December 13, 2007 - 12:25pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You mean this Mr. Martinez

http://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0403/S00177.htm

http://whereisthemoney.org/hotseat/mel/bushcabinet.htm

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
neon9 on December 13, 2007 - 3:39pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

That would be him. He's obviously done some dirty deeds, he was a lowly mayor of Orange County (FL) just a few short years ago. He didn't distinguish himself in that position either.

You'll hear more people down here complain about him because he condones immigrants who come here to use our schools and cut our lawns more than anything else, however. He's Cuban, after all.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

155 comments on DrumBeat: December 13, 2007

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

| Show without comments | PDF version