Sorry, john15, but got2surf never said everyone was broke. You did. You made up that straw man argument. Try again. You get a big fat "F" for that one.

why can't that happen now with cars or furnances?

With 95% efficent pulse furnaces - how much 'waste' do you think exists?

I have managed property in Las Vegas for years. They are well maintained properties, however they are now 40 years old. When summer (Vegas's winter) arrives the cost of keeping those apartments (average S.F. 900) rises to almost $400 a month. We have done the simple things like handing out pamplets to turn the temperature up, we have added insulation and changed out a lot of the air conditioners to more efficient units but it gets worse every year. When we ask the owners to consider changing out windows and putting in expensive solar screens most of them simply don't have the money or won't part with the money which is probably the case. They complain about the costs of taxes, property management, maintenance and the cost of a mortgage. All they want to know is when they can raise the rents.

There is no state assistance to help cover the cost of making these units efficient by putting in new windows and doors, solar screens and reinsulating. Most of the owners bought it for a tax dodge and most of them live out of state. They don't see the suffering and they frankly don't give a damn. If someone is 5 days late with the rent they want a 3 day notice to move.

I know of tenants having to make the choice of paying the rent buying food or paying their utility bills or turning off the Air conditioner. If you turn off the A/C it can kill you but I have seen people try and do it. Sometimes I see them sleeping outside on the grass at night (but we are now taking out all of the grass because of the water crises and replacing it with rock).

When people talk about doing all of these wonderful initiatives we need to understand that with the spectre of expensive energy a lot of Americans are about to feel what it's like to be poor. I think our worship of the almighty buck will be a far bigger obstacle to adapting than making strutural changes. Our economy is a model of Reaganomics trickle down.

Consider Las Vegas, "America's ghost capital" if the casinos need anything like an overpass a new plant or siphoning off scarce water resources for Steve Wynn's private 36 hole golf course for high rollors they get it. Poor people recieve little representation or consideration. At the same time the gaming industry pays 6.25% on gaming revenues and any talk of raising that ridiculously low rate is squashed like a bug. The new legitimate face of Las Vegas -International Corporations are far meaner and money grubbing than the mob ever thought of being.
Las Vegas has Little or no social services, and one of the lowest rated education systems in America and has been dubbed "The Misissippi of the West".

The well off in Vegas live behind guard gated communities much like Haiti - so they don't have to see the poor. But Las Vegas is very much like every other city in America - when it comes to taxes even the Democrats are Republicans at heart. If you mention raising a tax even for the most basic necessity it is voted down 99% of the time.

Let's hear comments on how we are going change the way America does business before we start building the infrastructure.