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39 comments on This, this is helpful...Pat Robertson and Chavez sitting in a tree...

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mw on August 23, 2005 - 8:45am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
Whether you like Chavez or not, he was elected, and then reconfirmed in a special "recall" vote (where the people could have turfed him) by majority votes of the people there. Venezuela is a federal democracy; everyone over 18 can vote.

Meanwhile, we (the west) support real dictators elsewhere.

Bottom line: Venezuelan oil resources belong to them and their people - they can do what they want with them. In a tight supply environment there will be plenty of buyers willing to pay the price - its capitalism at its finest, no?

As for Robertson, his recent comments just go to show how little he follows his own professed faith. Disgusting!

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Engineer-Poet on August 23, 2005 - 10:53am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
It was reported that the Chavez recall election had widespread irregulatities; for one thing, the tallied results did not match the exit polls and the electronic voting machines could have been rigged without a trace.

If you think that US elections are immune to such tampering, think again.

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Oil Wars on August 23, 2005 - 11:03am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
No, the election was thouroughly audited by two sets of outside auditors - the OAS and Carter center.  No descrepancies were found.  Also, the exit poll you refer to was by a leading opposition organization.  All other exit polls (there were about 10) showed Chavez winning plus pre-election polls had him winning.  Now he polls around 70 to 80%.  Mind you these are by polling firms opposed to Chavez.

http://oilwars.blogspot.com/2005/05/candor-from-petkoff.html

http://oilwars.blogspot.com/2005_07_10_oilwars_archive.html

http://oilwars.blogspot.com/2005/07/yet-more-poll-numbers.html

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Engineer-Poet on August 23, 2005 - 11:30am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
The Carter center went home before paper ballots were tallied.  As I said, e-voting is not trustworthy (there, here, or anywhere).

If Chávez is so committed to democracy, pluralism and separation of powers, why does he sound like Castro and why did he try to  pack the Supreme Court (and succeed) to make it totally subservient to him?

Chávez runs a democracy like any other autocrat:  One man, one vote, one time.

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Oil Wars on August 23, 2005 - 11:55am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
No you are relying on some false information here.  The paper ballot audit was done by the Carter Center and the OAS.  They have the reports detailing it at the bottom of this page. http://www.cartercenter.org/activities/showdoc.asp?countryID=87&submenu=activities

As far as the court being subservient - it said the coup against him wasn't a coup and let everyone go.  Definitely subservient.

And it is not one vote one time.  Chavez himself has stood for election 3 times.  There were local elections just recently.  Congressional ones are in December and Presidential in 2006.  Sorry but Venezuela has more elections than just about anyplace I can think of

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mw on August 23, 2005 - 11:29am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top
I followed the election news - it seemed to me at the time that the elections were about as clean as you might expect in such an environment.

Whether one agrees with him or not you have to admire how he's playing the politics of the situation - using the country's oil to gain influence (we call that a bad thing yet we do the same thing ourselves in reverse fashion - we seek to gain influence over oil) and spending plans have dramatically raised his popularity inside the country and outside since.

No doubt there will be a showdown of sorts.

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