225 comments on Food to 2050
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225 comments on Food to 2050
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I don't have convenient access to Nature papers, but the abstract of the paper you cited says:
which sounds about right. To repeat myself, my contention is that the only sense in which yields are slowing down, is that the growth has been pretty much a straight line for fifty years. Since food demand is also growing pretty much linearly, this is what has allowed the two to stay in fairly good equilibrium. I see no sign of departure from that straight-line. If you want to dispute that, you need some data. Quoting sentences out of context is not really advancing the discussion.
I will reserve my comments on water issues for a future occasion, as I indicated.
Figure 1 of the first Nature paper shows the following:
Cereal Yields (growth rate %)
Sown Area (growth rate %)
Figure 1 Annual growth rate of cereal yields and sown area in developing and
developed countries, 1977–2001. Data from Food and Agriculture Organization of
the United Nations.
I'm not arguing that yield increases will stop, but you seem to be saying that "if everything keeps getting better like it has it the past", then we should be fine. I definitely question the premise that climate change and peak oil will not seriously challenge your straight line hypothesis.
I believe the point at issue is that I am asserting that it has been a straight line for the last forty years, and that has not changed at present. I believe you have yet to present any evidence to the contrary.
I was just defending my original comment and quoted sentence, and it seems to me that the data I put in the table does that. But in the event that I am misguided and that past yield trends do portend a similar future, I guess I can start believing in graphs such as this:
I posted these numbers below earlier today, but this thread is touching on this subject;
From the FAO database, selecting global agricultural output, and dropping off minor countries that didn't report until later in the 1990s;
http://faostat.fao.org/site/601/DesktopDefault.aspx?PageID=601
1992 4022.14
1993 4200.31
1994 3998.06
1995 4027.96
1996 4072.65
1997 4109.69
1998 4056.5
1999 4025.72
2000 3980.68
2001 3993.63
2002 3981.28
2003 3857.04
2004 4139.75
2005 4057.07
2006 3957.06
We see that agricultural production is not growing, but actually slightly declining 2000-2006 when compared to 1993-1999. Yield/capita is in a much steeper decline. So any assumption of continuing yield growth, especially per capita, is not supported by the data.
Again you give no units. What do the numbers mean?
In 2003 the DG of the FAO said,
The units are Production Index Numbers, where the net production quantity of each commodity produced in the current year is weighted by the 1989-91 average per unit international commodity prices and summed for each year. To obtain the index, the aggregate for a given year is divided by the average for the base period 1989-91 where q0 is the net production quantity in the base period. Mathematical fonts don't seem to work here, so if you want a fuller description, see page 6 of http://ageconsearch.umn.edu/bitstream/123456789/3310/1/wp030002.pdf
Your 2003 quote is out-of-date and has no supporting data for current trends, which is the subject of this thread.
Ah, so when commodity prices go up, the index goes down. So for a decline in the index, we could be talking not about a decline in food production, but a rise in price.
Which everyone knows already - we're producing more food than ever, but it's getting more expensive, price pushed up by demand for livestock and biofuel feeds.
The 2003 quote, rather than being "out of date" is very relevant; 2003 is the year of the lowest index in your given series. So even when food was most scarce and/or most expensive, still the DG of the FAO was saying there was plenty.
Just take a look at the FAO's world food situation page. A glance down the reports and articles tells us that the issues are a shortage of fertiliser, and rising prices. Not a lack of food being produced. There's also a fear that some regions could lose production due to climate change. Could - not will.
A closer look at one of the articles gives us a few key quotes.
And so on. Nowhere do they mention "lower production" on a global scale. This or that country produces more or less, but the total production of grains, oils, sugar and so on continues to rise.
Nobody is going hungry because there's not enough food. They're going hungry because their area has trouble growing it (eg in the Sahel in West Africa) and because they're too poor to buy it.
> Ah, so when commodity prices go up, the index goes down.
No, let me try it again. Take a look at the reference to the Production Index Numbers I provided above, it's based on Laspeyres formula, which cannot be shown here due to mathematical font limitations.
Easier to understand information sources about how consumption is outstripping supply (even before the biofuels rush) include;
"In the agricultural year that ends with harvest season in 2008, the world will again consume more grain than it harvests. That will be the third year in a row and the seventh year out of the past eight when consumption has outstripped production." http://articles.moneycentral.msn.com/Investing/JubaksJournal/ProfitFromR...
> Which everyone knows already - we're producing more food than ever
which appears to be in conflict with
>weather-related production shortfalls [eg drought in Australia leading to lower production...]
I don't see any data that supports the former statement, though I have personally seen information on the latter.
So if more meat is being produced, are you counting the grains that are fed to the livestock as food available for human consumption?
> Nobody is going hungry because there's not enough food.
I don't see any data provided by you to support this assertion. Do you mean that drawing down grainstocks to make up for insufficient production is a sustainable trend?
More grain is produced each year than the last, on average. Grain is "food".
Now, we choose to give some of that grain to livestock, and some to biofuels. That given to biofuels no longer counts as "food." But the meat and milk does. The meat and milk have been rising from year to year.
If you take the total grain consumed directly by humans, add in all the meat and milk products, and the beans and oils, and the fruit and vegetables, then divide that by the population of the day, what you get more and more nutrition available year by year.
However, the food is not divided equally. There are 1,000 million overweight people in the West, and 800 million hungry people in the Third World. These numbers are probably not a coincidence.
The facts of ever-increasing grain, meat, milk product, beans and oils, and fruit and vegetable production are public information at the FAO site. However, they're separated into several different reports, especially "World Food Outlook". Go look.
That there's lower production of grain in this or that country does not mean there's lower production in the whole world. Don't be deliberately obtuse.
The issue of world grain stocks being lowered was already addressed in the paper I linked to. Look again, the word "stocks" is even bolded for you. It's too expensive to store them, and they don't really need to store as much, so they don't bother, they just sell them off. I don't see why I should go through that whole fucking site pulling out all the numbers when you don't even fully read a post here.
> If you take the total grain consumed directly by humans, add in all the meat and milk products, and the beans and oils, and the fruit and vegetables, then divide that by the population of the day, what you get more and more nutrition available year by year.
This is an assertion without data; how do you calculate the "total grain consumed directly by humans"? What total ag production figures are you referencing (be specific, please)? What population numbers are you using since 1990? With those answers, what trends do you see in this (21st) century?
The data's there at the FAO world food outlook. Go look it up. If you want a research assistant, I take paypal.
I've looked and seen nothing that substantiates your assertion. If you support your assertion, we can consider the data you present.
I will reserve my comments on water issues for a future occasion, as I indicated.
As someone who has tried to make a profit (or recover costs) with irrigated farming I have some thoughts. In the arid west, you do not purchase land for farming, you purchase water rights that happen to have some land attached. All food production is dependent on water, the soil is merely a structure to support the roots and plant structure and allow absorption of water and nutrients. No water = no food.
The production of food in the future should utilize a Hubbert analysis to determine the impact of peak irrigation water on food production. Much of the increased production is due to the mining of fossil water that is in decline. There is also the impact of the Export Land Model where irrigation water is diverted to other uses, power production, city consumption, recreation. The availability of water is probably a production limit reached before fertilizer or oil.
The earliest impact on food production may still be climate change. You have addressed the potential impact of global warming. There are also arguments that support global cooling. Global cooling may have larger impacts on food production than global warming, see the mini ice age approximately 1400 AD.