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95 comments on Thoughts after a trip to Botswana

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Franz on March 24, 2008 - 10:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Well, anyone who has read Jared Diamond's Collapse or studied history in general must come to the conclusion that societies don't do a very good job anticipating problems and correcting them.

Well, re Diamond at least, no, no one has to come to the conclusion you mention, especially as Diamond gives plenty of examples of societies that 'chose' to succeed and overcome their environmental problems. Tokugawa Japan, Germany, pre-contact New Guinea, Tikopia ... there might be others, can't remember offhand.

People read Diamond the same way they read the Bible, missing out everything that doesn't support their preconceptions. We are talking a guy who rabbits on about what a great job the Indonesian government and the oil companies are doing saving the rainforests hahahahahahahah ... hardly the ultimate doomer poster-boy.

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Todd on March 24, 2008 - 2:40pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Tokugawa Japan, Germany, pre-contact New Guinea, Tikopia ... there might be others, can't remember offhand.

You might want to explain what relevance these have to the current/upcoming crisis.

And, as a matter of accuracy, I had no preconceptions vis-a-vis Collapse. Nor, did I ever see Diamond as a "poster boy" for doomerism or view the book as a "bible". It's history.

Todd

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Franz on March 25, 2008 - 1:34am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Um … can you actually read what you wrote?

Well, anyone who has read Jared Diamond's Collapse or studied history in general must come to the conclusion that societies don't do a very good job anticipating problems and correcting them.

So the subject was Diamond, wasn’t it? That’s what I said: ‘re Diamond’. And then I quoted examples that show that what you say about Collapse is wrong. FFS, as someone has already pointed out, the book is subtitled ‘How societies choose to fail or succeed’. Diamond doesn’t only discuss failure, he discusses success.

That’s why I made the comparison with the Bible … but in your case, selective reading appears to be a general propensity.

As for explaining what relevance (Diamond's) examples have ... jeez, why don't you ask him? It's in the book ... you know, Collapse ...

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95 comments on Thoughts after a trip to Botswana

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