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155 comments on DrumBeat: March 16, 2008

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cjwirth on March 16, 2008 - 11:07am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Another good post would be on PASSIVE SOLAR, instead of alllllllll the posts we get here on solar/wind electric power techno-fixes and gadgets, which will all accelerate oil depletion and only give us useless electric power.

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jokuhl on March 16, 2008 - 1:08pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

"..only give us useless electric power"

Useless HOW!?

How, Cliff? Useless because people can safely post unbacked assertions on their electric computers, again and again? You just listed COUNTLESS the ways we use electricity in your MASSBLOCK of text yesterday. You seem to mean 'Doomed'.. but it's surely not useless.

If the grid is down (as you predict), but you have some electric tools, vehicles, refrigeration, communications.. and some local generation capacity.. does it not stand to reason that you would be using those tools to get to work solving the various problems you've got before you? Beyond that, Generators, Motors and PV panels all have track records that attest to their endurance FAR beyond ICE equipment, which means the effort put into making them was not likely wasted.

Passive Solar is great, as is direct solar heating, solar refrigeration, etc, and they do get mentioned from time to time here, but I haven't seen any suggestions for ways that Passive Solar could help us directly with transportation, save that it leaves fuel that 'would' have been in a furnace possibly available for a truck.. but that is 'Negawatts'. As I said, it's great, but it doesn't actually move the truck or the bus, while this 'USELESS' electricity CAN.

I don't actually object to your business aspirations, and don't necessarily agree with those who snark at you about consulting. I think that's fine. But your comments are getting down to 'junk' status as long as you insist on casting these broadsides and not sticking around to reinforce your point. It's become entirely trollish.

Bob

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jokuhl on March 17, 2008 - 7:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Crickets.. Crickets, I get.

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eric blair on March 16, 2008 - 2:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

only give us useless electric power.

Yea. You just keep thinking that.

Meanwhile, I'll enjoy light, water pumping and communications with that 'useless' electrical power, Mkaytnksbi.

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Robert Marston on March 17, 2008 - 1:18am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Aye. Me too. And transportation via my very cool (all-right call it geeky if you like) electric scooter.

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Robert Marston on March 17, 2008 - 1:43am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Woah, and the price of oil is starting up again. Real shocker. On the back of a rates cut. Hmm. This fed thing is getting pretty predictable.

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john15 on March 16, 2008 - 3:07pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

which will all accelerate oil depletion

how do they acclerate depletion? that's nonsense. very little oil is used in manufacturing and solar companies of all companies are the one's who have the energy. we should use the 50% of the oil we have left and use it as a multiplier like solar energy.

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eric blair on March 16, 2008 - 9:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/3740#comment-317228

"So where's the funding scheme for Alt energy?"
first make the case that it is in fact a problem.

Seems like you have the alt energy 'case' all figured out.

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cjwirth on March 16, 2008 - 11:17pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Are you sure that very little oil is used in all steps to manufacture, sell, and maintain. Would you like to make a $1000 wager, with an independent referee as judge, that we both agree on. Seriously, are you ready??? I need some fast cash, and I don't mind taking it from arrogant types like you.

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john15 on March 17, 2008 - 1:57am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

manufacturing is like 2.2% of oil use. at most we're talking maybe 15% of oil use to get it manufactured good's to people's houses. all that can cut through conservation or an economic downturn. meanwhile regular transportation uses about 40% of our oil. successful alt energy companies will have no problem manufacturing panels or wind turbines and etc.

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Robert Marston on March 17, 2008 - 2:29am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Some use 100% renewable energy for manufacturing...

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Aniya on March 17, 2008 - 2:41am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hi john,

I agree w. the general direction of your comment. This topic would be worth looking at with detailed stats.

re: "regular transportation uses about 40% of our oil."

Regular transportation would be the way workers get to their jobs (manufacturing jobs) - and is your stat for manufacturing a global one?

Regular transportation would also include supplying and installing parts.

The larger point is that the economy depends also on people's wages, i.e., their having jobs...

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Robert Marston on March 17, 2008 - 2:50am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

There comes a tipping point when the input of renewable energy makes up for the loss in available non-renewable energy. It's not all of a sudden going to disappear. It's just going to begin to grow scarce and so people will have to turn to efficiencies and alternatives. If people need to, they'll carpool first, use public transport, or even bike. There are also some pretty useful all electric scooters available now.

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