<DrumBeat: April 2, 2008 The Oil Drum Concentrating On The Important Things - Solar Thermal Power>

58 comments on Short-term supplies of natural gas

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FalloutMonkey on April 2, 2008 - 1:55pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The internet provides a much more efficient educational medium than same-age segregated classrooms in institutions dedicated to imposing conformity.

This might very well be true, but it is also true, that by using the internet as education medium people would have to sift through enormous amounts of information to find out, what is actually important and what is not, what is true and what is not. In the end, this might produce much more educated people, but it would be a lot more time consuming.

The purpose of schools and, to a lesser degree, universities is to provide pupils and students with a massive block of information that covers a broad spectrum of fields, where everything that seems unimportant is left out. This form of education saves a lot of time, at the risk of distorting or leaving out critical facts.

So our educational system is far from being perfect and neglects many basics, yes, it might even be used to misinform the masses and to prevent them from thinking, but it is also a sad fact, that many people have either not the time, the brain or the will to educate themselves beyond the absolute necessary; although an educated people would be vital for a working democracy.

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darwinsdog on April 2, 2008 - 2:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

This might very well be true, but it is also true, that by using the internet as education medium people would have to sift through enormous amounts of information to find out, what is actually important and what is not, what is true and what is not.

One has to sift thru enormous amounts of information in order to find out what is true and what's not regardless of the information source. Doing so online is much faster than doing it in a hardcopy library.

The purpose of schools and, to a lesser degree, universities is to provide pupils and students with a massive block of information that covers a broad spectrum of fields, where everything that *seems* unimportant is left out.

That "seems" I emphasized in the quote from your post is the big qualifier. What seems unimportant to one person may be vitally important to someone else.

...it is also a sad fact, that many people have either not the time, the brain or the will to educate themselves beyond the absolute necessary

Agreed. The thing is, tho, that these people aren't going to become educated no matter how well schooled they become. Good comments. Thanks.

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thomas deplume on April 2, 2008 - 2:46pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

A wise man, I think it was Woody Allen, said 90% of everything is crud. 99% of everything on the Internet is crud because it lacks the educated filtering of professional peer groups and publishing house editors. Even lunatics like me can create blogs that pontificate on even the most absurd concepts. Just look at how this site is used to spread anti-climate change nonsense. Ideally our schools would teach every child how to discern the wheat from the chaff even though 99% of our teachers have never seen real wheat or chaff.

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darwinsdog on April 2, 2008 - 3:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

99% of everything on the Internet is crud because it lacks the educated filtering of professional peer groups...

If you've ever been involved in the peer review process you probably don't have much confidence in the process. The way that personalities, academic rivalries, turf battles, good ole boy networks, tit for tat recommendations or rejections, etc., impact the process makes it just as suspect as anything else you read.

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Barrett808 on April 2, 2008 - 6:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I believe you're thinking of "Sturgeon's Law", after sci-fi author Theodore Sturgeon.

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FalloutMonkey on April 2, 2008 - 3:30pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

One has to sift thru enormous amounts of information in order to find out what is true and what's not regardless of the information source. Doing so online is much faster than doing it in a hardcopy library.

Though, libraries may still exist, when the infrastructure to uphold the internet is long gone.
Anyway, that is not the point I wanted to make. What I wanted to say is that the teachers and lecturers in schools and universities have done the sifting already and so present to you what they have found to be important. And no matter how wrong they might be, on what is important, the fundamentals they have to teach you. That way you can get a faster overview of many scientific fields than by carving out the basics of them all by yourself, and I see it as highly important to have a basic understanding of many fields, to get a grip of the big picture.

It is a problem that many people are dwelling solely in their special field of expertise and that they cannot see beyond their own nose. That's why economists see every aspect from an economic point of view. It's what they know, what they have learned.
But to understand what's going on on this planet, to get the full picture and to make wise decisions for the future, you have to have knowledge of many different realms.
We have divided science in many areas, but in real life this division often doesn't exist and so a problem can touch aspects of many scientific fields. So if you watch a problem from your specialized point of view it is likely that you are missing something crucial, which could have dire consequences.

So, school is a way, to get in touch with those many fields, in a fairly compact span of time. For more in-depth knowledge you might fare better to do your own research, but for some basics, school is good enough. At least, where I live.

What I'd like to see in school though is the teaching of critical thinking from first grade on. That way pupils would learn to scrutinize what they were taught and it would get more difficult to distort the truth. So far the establishing of a critical mind is not only neglected, it is even discouraged. And that is, maybe, the point, where the school system really fails. It creates zombies that are willingly believing everything that a so-called authority, be it a scientific, political or clerical, spews around.

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darwinsdog on April 2, 2008 - 4:28pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

...the teachers and lecturers in schools and universities have done the sifting already and so present to you what they have found to be important.

You're right, of course, but what educators have found to be important has been sifted thru the filters of their own bias, and that of their instructors in turn. I suppose this is just human nature and is to be expected. The internet exposes learners to every sort of bias and thereby forces them to construct their own filters, if they're capable of doing so.

It is a problem that many people are dwelling solely in their special field of expertise and that they cannot see beyond their own nose.

I know this guy who does research on growing hybrid poplars for celluosic biofuel conversion in a semiarid region where the soil pH is 8.2 and the mean annual precip is 8.2". He utilizes computer controlled solenoid valve irrigation and knows precisely what micronutrient supplementation the trees require. I would imagine that he's the world's foremost expert on growing poplars under conditions they aren't adapted to. Yet there is no market for his trees, which I call his "bananas in Alaska." Has he ever asked himself WHY he thinks he needs to grow these trees that nobody wants where they don't belong? The reason he does it is that there's grant $$$ available for cellulosic biofuels research. To him, this is more than sufficient justification for this waste of the taxpayers' $$$.

So far the establishing of a critical mind is not only neglected, it is even discouraged. And that is, maybe, the point, where the school system really fails.

In the first place, few students possess the intellect to support critical thinking. For the few capable of developing critical thinking skills, the schools are designed to ensure that they never do. If large numbers of citizens ever developed critical thinking skills, the status quo would collapse. Everything from politics & religion to organized sports would be seen for the scams they are. The powers that be can't allow that. And for the very few who are capable of developing critical thinking skills in spite of the organized childhood long attempt to prevent them from doing so... well, here we are. :)

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pondlife on April 2, 2008 - 2:45pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I think the main purpose of school is to contain children so that adults can go to work. Why else do we send them at 4/5 yrs old??

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CO2 on April 2, 2008 - 3:34pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

My daughter, a 13 year old PETA influenced vegetarian, will be speaking to the school principal with objection to science class dissections of frogs, mice, etc. I would venture that maybe 1-2 of the class will become surgeons. What do the rest learn from that that can't be seen in 3d modeling, textbooks? Dunno, it's what we always do in 7th grade science..

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WinstonK on April 2, 2008 - 7:02pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I think that dissecting animals is one of the more valuable things that kids do in school. For really learning how animals function there's no better way to teach it. A computer simulation doesn't give you the same feel or the same experience of discovery as actually dissecting an animal. This isn't only knowledge that is valuable to kids destined to become surgeons, doctors, nurses and veterinarians. Dissecting animals also provides experience with the scientific method. These are things that are much harder to teach solely from books and simulations.

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FalloutMonkey on April 2, 2008 - 8:35pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Sorry, but most people will never have any advantages in their life, because they have performed a dissection on an animal, and to see how the body works an anatomy book would suffice for most of us.

And if dissection has to be teached, why not letting them watch an autopsy? That way they would actually learn something about their own bodies, which is more likely of any value, than to know the inside of a frog or mouse.
As far as I can see those school dissections create just more dead animals and not indispensable knowledge.

And you can very well learn how to work in a scientifical way without cutting a single being into pieces.

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jim burke on April 3, 2008 - 1:11am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Winston Churchill said "the primary use of a liberal education is to know when someone is talking rot."

And speaking of "talking rot," what has any of this to do with the topic of rapidly depleting natural gas supplies?

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58 comments on Short-term supplies of natural gas

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