The Oil Drum

56 comments on Unconventional Oil: Tar Sands and Shale Oil - EROI on the Web, Part 3 of 6

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InJapan on April 15, 2008 - 8:56pm

Did you arrive at these results through dividing the "Production" figure by "Producer Consumption" numbers?

If so, then I wonder if the technote 5 on table 11 (http://www.statcan.ca/english/freepub/57-003-XIE/2005000/technote5.htm) would apply:

These tables provide the volumes of these usage/gains reported in the main tables of this report as an increase in ‘production’ or ‘Inter-product transfers’, with the disposition reported as ‘producer consumption’ or as usage in the ‘mining industry’.

So, from the table labeled "Energy Supply and Demand" one would have to add to "Producer Consumption" some share from the "Industrial" entry (as "Industrial" would include mining per the notes.)

In other words, "Producer Consumption" doesn't include strictly mining consumption (or likely transportion consumption) either.

No?

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G. Asebius on April 15, 2008 - 9:57pm

Did you arrive at these results through dividing the "Production" figure by "Producer Consumption" numbers?

Yup.

Regarding technote 5 for table 11....

Remember that not all crude produced is classed as energy. If it's used in plastics production, lubricants etc, it's a product of mining and energy used to produce it is counted as such, not as consumption by an energy producer.

So, what happens, for instance, when hydrogen from nat gas is used to upgrade heavy oil which is then used for non-energy applications? I think this section deals with those cases as well as the case where the oil ends up being used as energy.

That's why it can be counted as either producer consumption or attributed to mining (not both).

But, I'm no expert.

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InJapan on April 15, 2008 - 10:46pm

Unfortunately the definitions as given aren't provided with enough detail or examples to clarify what is really meant by "producer consumption" or "industrial", etc.

This is the problem of accrual. E.g., if a company has to transport personnel to a job site, does the energy expended to accomplish this get put into "producer consumption" or "transportation"?

If such details are not tractable, perhaps it is better to accept that EROEI analyses are best thought of as qualitative indicators rather than the energy equivalent of accounting.