<DrumBeat: May 4, 2008 The Oil Drum Energy Strategy for ETH Zurich: A Critical Review>

52 comments on Nielsen: The Oil Drum is the #4 Sustainability Site on the Web

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

| Show without comments | PDF version

BadgerB on May 2, 2008 - 1:42pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

We are not programmed for growth. We are programmed to attempt to survive. We attempt survival by addressing problems. The problems we address are limited by our own human perceptions.

I would suggest based on the way all life works, and specifically on several species on the verge of extinction. That life as we know it here and the survival of that life is entirely based on growth. Life makes copies of itself that is one of the very basic definitions of life itself. For life the more copies it can make and therefore grow the better it's chances at survival. Our particular species however has a problem we have become way too good at making copies of ourselves and like the bacteria in the petri dish will soon exhaust the raw materials we need to survive. All the conservation in the world will only go so far sooner or later, either in a controlled fashion or absolute chaos our population has to decline substantially for for any of the sustainability ideas to work.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
710 on May 2, 2008 - 3:10pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

It would have been more accurate for me to say that we are not programmed for unrestrained or unlimited growth in our numbers, in our population.

Growth gives us "more", which is what we use to solve problems, problems which were created by the previous "more" not getting to the root of the problem.

And the roots of our problems have been almost completely obscured due to our cognitive limitations in the face of extreme complexity.

In biological systems, of which H. sapiens is an example, decline (increasing senescence) and termination (death) always follow growth. Life continues because prior to termination, the process is renewed (in our case through sexual relations and birth).

Civilization believes, due to the important particulars being obfuscated by complexity, that decline and termination will never come. In reality, the decline has been happening for millennia, and termination is not only inescapable but will be rapid.

We have climbed so far up, and have so much further to fall during a collapse.

We have no process, designed from the top-down or inherent from the bottom-up, that provides resilient renewal for our societal structure for the inevitable end.

Maybe "resilient renewal" is a better term than "sustainability".

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Termoil on May 3, 2008 - 1:29am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Growth is more than just the physical hogging of resources. Spiritual growth and growth of knowledge and wisdom do not necesarily use more resources and may in fact be the path to reducing our physical wants, but it still entails growth, just maybe not the sort of growth we typically talk about here which is economic.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

52 comments on Nielsen: The Oil Drum is the #4 Sustainability Site on the Web

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

| Show without comments | PDF version