Well Bush came as close to admitting that we're close to peak oil as he/any other mainstream politician could, in his recent speech. Of course with a new found statesman like look/sound about him :). As if he had nothing to do with the disaster that is the American economy today.

I doubt if any of them is going to say "Ladies and Gentlemen-we're at peak oil". Your country is pretty much fascist - which means big corporates' interests rein supreme. You seriously think any politician is going to piss them off? PO is politically as incorrect as it gets and no politician is going to utter those words till it is an open secret (and even then might not - why state the obvious and get punished).

While many people on this forum might think your politicians are dumb (Bush plays marvellously to the gallery with his folksy talk) and unaware of PO - I doubt it. They are playing along in a game that suits them. They are cunning (how else would they have gotten elected) and have enormous resources at their disposal - intelligent, devious resources. Don't underestimate them.

(India is not much better - but we have left wing "nuts" with just enough seats in the Parliament to keep things in check - the left wingies turn fascist pretty quickly when they rule a state btw).

Srivathsa

As PG has pointed out, that's the advantage of a parliament. You end up giving even fringe groups a voice, and as a result, you can change course faster.

Our founding fathers were afraid of change. They set things up to ensure stability. Hence, we have only two political parties at any one time, without much difference between them.

Actually all decisions take much slower to make with fringe groups. Even the stupid ones. That helps in such times.

Srivathsa

Leanan-- your opinion if you care to give it:

"They" were almost hopelessly divided, but as Gary Wills describes, (Henry Adams and the Making of America)even Jefferson came around to accepting the need for a strong central government. I suppose "they" hoped they could create stability without degenerating into a new monarchy.

Now "we" are stuck with their fateful choices-- how could "they" have forseen that "corporations" would be counted as "persons" with rights to "free speech" and yet no statutory responsibilities to support the nation that supports them?

At this point, do you really think it matters which of the candidates we have been presented is elected?

Is Emma Goldman correct? ("If elections really changed anything, they would make them illegal.")

At this point, do you really think it matters which of the candidates we have been presented is elected?

No. None of them would have gotten as far as they have if they were not supported by our corporate overlords.

I don't know that I'd go quite as far as Emma Goldman, but change comes slowly in the US.

I think the Founding Fathers didn't really know what corporations would be, and the closest thing they could imagine to these monsters were what were known as "joint-stock companies" and those were already known to be evil. The Founders wanted a wealthy, landowning aristocracy to run the US, voted for by those (white males) who were at least to some extent wealthy - they had to own land to vote. And there was even a reward for being *more* wealthy, in that 3/8 vote or whatever it was per slave. Slaves then were like machines now, a measure of wealth. What they could not forecast was that artificial beings, corporations, would end up being the aristocracy in the US and that they'd have the ability to brainwash people to go along with this for the most part and think it's wonderful.

And Emma Goldman was right.

the US governmental system is much more democratic than our parliamentary system. You have devided government, mid term elections and state governments. In a parliamentary system the majority party appoints the executive and you are stuck with them for 4-5 years. In that time they do what they like and can disregard the electorate entirely. MP's rarely vote against the party line and there are no checks. Local government can be overruled at the governments whim and can be reorganised and even have it's financing withdrawn if the government chooses. US is better.

For quite some time, 80% of the American public wants us out of Iraq yesterday. And yet?

Some democracy.

Time and time again, you seem not to have any idea what you are talking about. Maybe you are being sarcastic, and I'm just missing it.

Our founding fathers were afraid of change. They set things up to ensure stability. Hence, we have only two political parties at any one time, without much difference between them.

Actually, our founding fathers abhorred political parties and didn't want them. The political parties that they observed in Britain were considered (quite rightly, especially at that time) as sources of corruption. Regardless of what the Framers wanted, the formation of political parties was almost inevitable. Once parties arose, the electoral/governmental system established under the Constitution had and continues to have the effect of discouraging more than two major parties,

It seems to me that the real factor in change is the degree to which the corporate elites can be set against one another - to think they are a unified, monolithic whole misses the fact that there is a lot of inter and intra-industry disagreement on many of these 'big issues'. Once the corporate elite are divided, that leaves a pretty big opening for progressives to making lasting reforms.

In Britain the left are good at conning business in to supporting their projects, and when they realise they have been had it's to late. Businessmen are suprisingly stupid with regard to matters ouside the bottom line. they are easily duped. Thats why ideas about them manipulating government are far fetched. they are too dim.