![]() | The ASPO-Italy conference in Torino | The Oil Drum: Europe | La sicurezza delle forniture di gas in Europa | ![]() |
47 comments on What would $120 oil mean for the global economy?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
47 comments on What would $120 oil mean for the global economy?
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Blogroll
- ASPO The official site of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
- Energy Bulletin Clearing house for news regarding the peak in global energy supply.
- PowerSwitch Dedicated to raising awareness & discussion of the impending & permanent decline of cheap oil & gas supply.
- ODAC Oil Depletion Analysis Centre working to raise awareness and promote better understanding of the world's oil-depletion problem.
- Global Public Media Public service broadcasting for a post carbon world.
- Post Carbon Institute Learning to live in a low energy world.
- PeakOil.com US site and forum to educate and promote awareness of global hydrocarbon depletion.
- FEASTA The Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability
- Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) This website describes an effective and fair response both to climate change and oil/gas depletion
- Aleklett's Energy Mix Global Energy Systems, Peak Oil, etc
- www.SamassaVeneessä.info Finnish peak oil site
Other Blogs
User login
Personnel
Editors
Contributors
Peak Oil Primers
Archives
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
Vital Trivia
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.




GAIA Host Collective
Leanan stated it in a comment to Gails's story about the vulnerability of The Grid (to paraprase);
Less Energy means less Net Energy.
What this means in a few words less than C.J. just provided, or has published in his paper (on the coffee table thank you very much), is the decrease in petroleum fuels will result in a decrease of all energy sources. All the other energy methods are capitalized, constructed and maintained with petroleum fuels. Biomass, tidal, solar or wind will not compensate for the loss; and, nuclear will not fill the gap. There simply will be less.
This is a paradigm shift in our outlook for considering alternatives. And, it only supports the power down protocol. The chances of coming up with an alternative (and it would have to be multiples better in free energy) for petroleum fuels to seamlessly slip into our BAU has two chances - slim, and none.
On a personal commentary, I think TOD should stop running advertising for all these financial firms for profiting on the Peak Oil situation; such as The Backdoor Play Exxon Doesn't Want You to Discover, or the Bakken Black Gold Rush. Doesn't the slick opportunism, pandering, or soulless merchantialism ever stop? It's not funny anymore people, time to grow up and be a fully functional adult part of the species.
Can't wait to see that oil bit (see ad by www.InvestmentJ.com/Peak_Oil). Does it release the techno-genie from the deep offshore depths, or cause angels to dance on the head of a pin while extracting multiple deposits among highly fragmented deep structures at pennies per barrel? Parasites feeding on the desperate perspiration of those trying to eek out the last of the profiteering capitalism fantasy. I feel dinner coming back for a second round and it isn't going to taste so good this time!
"On a personal commentary, I think TOD should stop running advertising for all these financial firms for profiting on the Peak Oil situation; such as The Backdoor Play Exxon Doesn't Want You to Discover, or the Bakken Black Gold Rush. Doesn't the slick opportunism, pandering, or soulless merchantialism ever stop? It's not funny anymore people, time to grow up and be a fully functional adult part of the species."
I second that and would add that it is getting harder and harder to stomach.
The advertising is a brutal reminder, no doubt.. but isn't this also a fine example of 'Capitalism Selling you the Rope to hang it with?' The Messages here are rarely in conformity with the assumptions behind these Ads.. why not take their money to leverage new ideas?
We've all grown up with an increasing awareness of the glowing promises in marketing, and should be able to keep our heads clear as to what they are and are not. Maybe it's even Churchill's 'Protecting the Truth with a Bodyguard of Lies..'
Bob
I believe that the ads are auto generated by google adds. TOD doesn't have control over what is displayed unless it drops google adds, but then TOD would need another source of revenue to continue operating.
TOD faces ever present dangers of being co-opted by corporate interests. Those TOD editors who post high tech energy projects can be hired subsequently as consultants or speakers for the industry they have promoted. Without knowing it, they can be rewarded and thus corrupted. This is why governments attempt to regulate the activities of public officials during and after government service, at least for a short period of time.
The mission of TOD can be compromised. TOD posts many technofixs relative to the number of posts dealing with preparations for Peak Oil impacts. The message to the many readers among the public, industry, and government is that we can fix Peak Oil problems. This provides support for a Manhattan Energy Project, instead of what is needed -- a scientific study by the National Academy of Sciences/National Research Council.
One of the main problems with the posting of the technofixes is that rarely if ever do the sponsors provide a real EROEI analysis. A real EROEI analysis must include all of the energy that is consumed in all of processes getting to the final product, from all of the ores, components, and parts from all over the world, and the transportation of parts, products, and employees, and the factories and energy that supplies them, and the salaries of all the employees in a thousand processes and transportation to get the technofix to market and then maintained, and all of the oil, natural gas, and coal that all of these thousands of employees use when they spend their salaries. Opportunity costs must be included too, for example, if biomass is taken out of production. And a real time frame for the life cycle must be established, given that Peak Oil means less oil to maintain everything, and that the power grid will go out.
TOD editors are making a big mistake if they attempt to play the role of the National Academy of Sciences. Rather, TOD can play a role in asking Congress to commission the NAS/NRC to study these issues. We could have a letter writing campaign to Members of Congress. Maybe they would favor this approach. I'm sure that most of them don't know what direction to go in concerning the energy crisis.
I would disagree in that over the years the readership has been well served by those in industry that have taken the time to provide information and their time to write on areas of their expertise. The degree of willingness to provide this advice has been a considerable contribution to the worth of the site. It has not been something that I have seen being much abused, as you would suggest.
I actually disagree with you on what the best path forward is (and yes I have been on an NRC panel). There was a program back in the 1970's out of NSF run by a guy called Bill Hakala. They were looking at different novel ways to drive tunnels (the plan at the time was to run a high-speed rail tunnel down the East Coast). For the first year he sensibly said that if you could come up with a half-way feasible concept, then he would put up $100,000 for you to do a one-year study and the odd experiment to prove whether it was viable. There was a lot of useful information generated on a wide variety of ideas (a Pueblo in NM got a new sewer system out of one idea) including some surprisingly good results from a couple of ideas that initially some of us thought were crazy.
My comments about technofix posts have to do with co-optation of editors/contributors who are located all over the globe, and their possibly being influenced on what to post. I'm not sure how you know that this has not been a problem, nor will be a problem. Influence is hard to detect. This is a problem for every organization.
You seem not to know what I am talking about when I refer to a NSF study, and you seem therefore to indicate that the NSF should not undertake a study similar to the 1977 study,“Energy in Transition 1985-2010”:
http://books.nap.edu/openbook.php?record_id=11771&page=R1
This 600 page study is the most comprehensive energy policy analysis ever undertaken. The study utilized some 350 scientists from various fields, with a mix of the scientists from industry, universities, government, and non-profits. Information was shared, panels provided findings to a central panel that wrote the report and recommendations. Scientists who concurred or disagreed with the findings or recommendations included statements in an appendix, so all analysis and recommendations could be challenged. It is the ideal approach for policy analysis.
You do not give any reason for this position. I am perplexed that you would oppose an NSF study of energy policy. This is the only way to get the best scientists in different fields to analyze diverse complex questions that are interrelated, which is the context of energy policy. A central problem of Peak Oil is a lack of analysis about what policies will serve the public best. As well all know, a lot of lives are at stake. Congress and the president need advice, and they are hearing vastly different solutions. Given the importance of Peak Oil, it is amazing that the NSF has not been examining overall/comprehensive energy policy on a continuing basis since 1977. How could we let 30 years of study go by.
Dear Heading Out and Cliff,
re: Heading Out says:
"I actually disagree with you on what the best path forward is (and yes I have been on an NRC panel)."
And then he says,
"...some surprisingly good results from a couple of ideas that initially some of us thought were crazy."
HO, did you mean to say "I actually AGREE WITH YOU..."
If we clear this up, I may be able to go on to ask my questions.