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287 comments on DrumBeat: May 8, 2008
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287 comments on DrumBeat: May 8, 2008
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CNN: Discussion on $200 Oil
There is a discussion going on at a blog run by CNN regarding Goldman Sachs forecast of $200 oil:
http://business.blogs.cnn.com/
This is a great chance to present the case for Peak oil, including the likely geometric progression of prices and the reasons that the shortages are fundamental, not due to temporary factors.
I am hoping that one of the members here who has detailed expertise can post a comment on this blog.
I thought it important to strike whilst the iron was hot, and so posted to the blog, even though I would have preferred that those better qualified had got in - I hope I have presented the case with reasonable competence!
Here is what I said:
Here is what I posted:
Hello,
I’ve been researching energy since 2004 when it seemed to me that fuel prices were becoming oddly volatile.
What I have discovered since then has been quite shocking and really changed my perspective. We truely live in a finite world.
I beg everyone who is reading this to do the research yourself. Take a saturday afternoon, read SAICs Hirsch report, read IEAs energy forecast from last year, read what the US GAO has to say about the peaking of world oil.
All the information is out there but you are going to have to go get it yourself.
It takes a good amount of courage to read some of the projections as most of them are not so rosy; so be courageous but please don’t forgo checking the facts for yourself.
If you are fairly technical, start spending some time at http://www.theoildrum.com. There is alot of good information there.
Both your replies don't show. At least not now
'Awaiting moderation'
I posted this: "Oil is a finite resource. Despite large reserves, more important is how fast you can get it pumped out of the ground. Presently we burn 1000 barrels, or 159,000 liters. Per second, that is. Totalling approximately 85 million barrels of oil each day, or 30 billion barrels of oil a year. People should see the recent Brasilian find of possibly 33 billion barrels in this perspective.
Sometime, something, somewhere has got to give. That thing is called Peak Oil. This occured in the US around 1970. Worldwide Peak Oil is probably around now."
I wonder how long w'll be waiting for moderation. The more of us posting there, the harder pressed they will be to post these. I can already smell the panic on their end ;-)
They say they may not post all comments.
Part of the reason I posted was that I saw the guy on the TV, and he said that he personally would try to read all comments.
He is solid that oil is likely to hit $200, but I am not sure that he is peak aware, so thought it worthwhile to try to communicate.
You point of flow rate you make is the other one I was desperate to squeeze in, but if the post is too ling they won't read it, so i left it out - great that you have covered it.
Hopefully West Texas and others will chime in - I referenced him - hope he doesn't mind
Visible now.
Your right about the poor having been knocked out first. If you remember, price of gasoline at the pumps dropped for a short period of time about a year, year and a half ago due increased supply caused by the demand destruction of those countries. And yes, the next tier will be the tier not able to pay the higher prices. Maybe that's the US - who knows? But yes there is some price point for each economic tier that causes demand destruction, and what that price will be for each tier is yet to be determined.
I think what we saw first was demand destruction of the poorest countries, and secondly huge increases in food prices worldwide. The 3rd effect of higher fuel prices is yet to be determined. Either it will be more demand destruction at a higher tier or possibly mass famine in Africa and other 3rd world countries when the price of food goes too high.
In any case we are in the beginning stages of Kunstler's Long Emergency. Stock up on canned food and save your fruit and vegetable seeds for the day you start your own personal food garden. Speaking of which our local Walmart is selling its cheapest food at an alarming rate. Our last visit was an eye opener as most of the food shelves were empty. If nothing else it shows people are getting more desperate to put food on the table. Must be hard with a big family.
Here's what I posted:
Oil production has been essentially flat since 2005, and that has resulted in the price of oil doubling in the last year. Since we are at or near the ultimate peak of world oil production, the amount available will soon begin an irreversible decline. When it does, the price spike will make the current rate of increase look quite mild. These are the good old days.
Mark Folsom
Here's what I submitted to the blog:
"The rate of oil production, approximately 85 million barrels a day (bbl/d) in total liquids and 74 million bbl/d in crude and condensate, has remained approximately flat since about 2005. Increasing oil demand globally, perhaps largely driven by the rapid growth of the economies of China and India in a world with already extant oil-intensive economies such as exist in North America and Europe (for example), has put intense pressure on an apparently limited supply of crude. Prices have risen dramatically. Indeed, price per barrel now appears to be doubling every 12-18 months.
"Given the reality that new discoveries are trailing production by at least three barrels per every one produced, and the advanced 'age' of many producing oil fields, especially the major finds such as Ghawar in Saudi Arabia, world oil production is likely to begin to decline. Exports from oil-producing countries will probably decline even faster than actual production decline, as internal oil consumption increases due to the expenditure of all the wealth obtained by the exporting country in a market of high oil prices. As a result, oil prices are set to climb even faster in the future. Imagine a world where oil prices double perhaps every 3 to 6 months.
"Among a huge list of geopolitical implications that could be (and are being) triggered by a rapid escalation in oil prices, one thing seems clear: Such a fast climb in the price of oil, the lifeblood of the world's economies, probably will result in the end of mass consumerism, and all the cold, hard realities that go along with such a dramatic economic rearrangement."
-best,
Wolf
Here's a sample of a comment:
Probably the Lutec1000, now has a different name... Lutec Electricity Amplifier.
http://www.lutec.com.au/index.htm
http://pesn.com/2005/06/24/9600115_Lutec1000_Lu_Brits_Interview/
Cheers
Who are these two Australians? Journalists rarely interview anonymous people. Link to the CNN article or story? If this discovery or invention was so good, why has it not been published to a peer reviewed journal or submitted for independant testing by qualified, reputable scientists? Conspiracy theories are very popular but don't stack up to even rudimentary inspection. It's extraordinarily difficult to keep secrets on the Internet. Why don't these two talented inventors publish their discovery on the Internet for others to use?