<Eco-Driving promoted by the European Commission The Oil Drum DrumBeat: June 2, 2008>

219 comments on Dmitry Orlov's Book--Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

| Show without comments | PDF version

SwordsOfDamocles on June 1, 2008 - 2:16pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Right, what I am saying is even if we can manufacture solar panels using solar panels, we can't transport them or mine the material to make them without solar power..

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
john15 on June 1, 2008 - 2:58pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

we can't transport them or mine the material to make them without solar power..

I don't follow.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
SwordsOfDamocles on June 1, 2008 - 9:59pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

I am saying that if we can manufacture solar power with solar power, we would also have to mine the materials ect and transport them using solar power, or else your not truly using solar power. We can't get away from fossil fuels like one would think.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
DaveMart on June 1, 2008 - 10:22pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You seem to keep passing over nuclear.
The world is not going to be all solar for a long time, if ever.
Or are you looking at theoretical solutions to problems we might have thousands of years in the future?

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
eric blair on June 2, 2008 - 10:08am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The world is not going to be all solar for a long time, if ever.

DaveMart - the world *IS* Solar.

Coal, oil, wind, water - all expressions of energy from sol. (ok, ok. Wind also has a spinning globe effect.)

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
George.Mobus on June 4, 2008 - 7:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

No matter what the source of energy, the energy conversion capital equipment must produce enough excess useful energy above consumption needs to be self-sustaining. Since fossil fuels are such high-quality sources with relatively cheap conversion capital (including refining and transport) they have been self-sustaining. The problem is they are not renewable, hence peak oil, etc. In order to expand energy production you need excess energy to mine, form, and construct the conversion capital (not to mention maintenance). These are the questions we need to answer about any proposed alternative energy production technology. Is the conversion capital self-sustaining, or does it need subsidization? If the latter, it probably isn't a good choice.

George

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
john15 on June 2, 2008 - 2:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

we would also have to mine the materials ect and transport them using solar power

electric vehicles charged from solar panels.

Comments can no longer be added to this story.
Arclite on June 4, 2008 - 8:10am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Where can I buy one of those?

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

219 comments on Dmitry Orlov's Book--Reinventing Collapse: The Soviet Example and American Prospects

Comments can no longer be added to this story.

| Show without comments | PDF version