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200 comments on Hawaii: Peak Oil Canary in a Coal Mine

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gettingwarm on June 22, 2008 - 10:36am Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

Life in Hawaii has long been influenced by fossil fuels. High cost of living, including food and fuel, have long been facts of life. Limited resources, including land, make living in the Aloha State hard for all but the very rich. a look at the future.

Hawaii had wind farms decades ago. The potential for sugar cane-based ethanol is good (if cane fields aren't all turned into subdivisions. HI has also been in the forefront of geothermal and solar. Problem is on Oahu / Honolulu there are too many people living high up on the food chain to be sustainable.

I am moving my 90 year old mother into assisted living on the mainland because the cost is 1/3 that of Oahu.

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Gail the Actuary on June 22, 2008 - 12:11pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The problem I see with sugar cane based ethanol is that it doesn't really help with the problem of feeding the people. It may keep a few of the cars running a little longer, but it isn't likely to add much to exports, and the use of the land for this purpose leaves less for food.

There is no sugar cane production on the Big Island currently, but there is on Maui. I don't think production was cost-effective on the Big Island. Maui has more flat land, where it is easier to use commercial equipment. Maui is running into water limitations, and sugar cane is irrigated. If anything, I would expect sugar production on Maui to decrease, because of the water issues.

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tomc on June 22, 2008 - 12:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

So there is *no* solution for hawaii, that's the consensus ?

Great.

So they're fucked if oil runs out. So they're fucked. Pack up and leave ...

(and as a comment to the original article : if Hawaii is to be defended, obviously a (relatively large) part of US mil will have to be stationed there. If it is (strategically wise) to be able stand up to a potential attack by China's 1 billion, it's probably best to station at least several thousand + including wife and children, there)

Perhaps it could use geotherm power to create hydrogen, and export that ? Or float large solar panels around the islands, use it to generate some kind of energy containing liquid and export that ? Might help with those ailing tourism industries + provide a lot of work for mechanics.

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Gail the Actuary on June 22, 2008 - 2:04pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

There are two different directions to go--back to what seemed to work before, and full speed ahead, to find something else that might work.

At this point, I am not seeing how full speed ahead is going to get to a reasonable destination. Maybe I am missing a solution that is available, though.

People may have a hard time accepting going back, given the difference between lifestyles 200 years ago and now. There may be some compromise, if we can add some current technology to what we knew 200 years ago, to produce something people can live with.

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john15 on June 22, 2008 - 2:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

It may keep a few of the cars running a little longer, but it isn't likely to add much to exports, and the use of the land for this purpose leaves less for food.

wait just a minute here. peak oil is a huge problem yet Hawaii can probably produce some large amounts of sugar and that STILL doesn't matter? sugar cane can help people get around town, grow some crops AND you can burn it to make electricity. that's a big plus. I can't say I know much about how they grow food. I will say that everything costs more in hawaii because they are at the end of the supply chain. in the future they'll still get imports but they'll pay more for them than the mainland they they always have. while hawaii is dependent on someone else to grow their food the flip side is someone depends on hawaii not being able to grow food to make a livelihood.

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BrianT on June 22, 2008 - 2:31pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

You sound like a doomer-everything does not cost more in Hawaii.

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john15 on June 22, 2008 - 2:51pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

according to CNN's cost of living calculator it's 10% more expensive to live in hawaii than Queens, NY.

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Afaflix on June 22, 2008 - 11:53pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

" according to CNN's cost of living calculator it's 10% more expensive to live in hawaii than Queens, NY."

I'd call that a bargain.

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ThatsItImout on June 22, 2008 - 4:27pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

That's the first time I have EVER heard John15 called a doomer!

Those familiar with his posts will get the irony...:-)

RC

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Doom and Gloom Dad on June 22, 2008 - 3:37pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Have you looked at
http://www.blueearthbiofuels.com/

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eric blair on June 22, 2008 - 10:12pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Life in Hawaii has long been influenced by fossil fuels.

Huh. I thought dole and C&H was a bigger historical issue.

http://www.chproperties.com/History.htm

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200 comments on Hawaii: Peak Oil Canary in a Coal Mine

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