<DrumBeat: July 7, 2008 The Oil Drum Why oil costs over $140 per barrel: the failure of leadership>

179 comments on Status and Curiosity - On the Origins of Oil Addiction

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Oilrig medic on July 6, 2008 - 12:32pm Permalink | Subthread | Comments top

Nate,

Your curve representing legal versus illegal drugs and their energy footprint is crazy. For one nicotine can be consumed at 18 while alcohol is 21, and there is no legal limit to how much nicotine you can consume. Heroin and cocaine are both highly concentrated derivatives produced largely with hand tools in third world countries. They are transported long distances but their weight versus distance is equal to coffee at least and coffee being legal is able to have many obvious large farms using modern equipment. How is food not the most legal thing on the chart? You just drew a curve and willy nilly placed items on it.

The next curve even though you state hypothetical is still wrought with problems. Horseback riding is at least as old as a bread butter ale combo and since we evolved as tribes of familial groups a cousin would not be an amazing stimulation. In fact most people married cousins until recent history.

A good scientist forms conclusions based on observed data not the other way around.

The presentation was nice, but like much of your other work I see you connecting dots that may not be actually connected.

Respectfully yours,

MAtt

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Nate Hagens on July 6, 2008 - 1:39pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The two graphics you mention were clearly labeled as thought experiments/hypothetical. At least they made you think.

As to the rest of the ideas presented here, they were heavily researched and referenced. This is a (more colorful) draft of a paper being submitted to Journal of Behavior Ecology, a field which is just now connecting these dots.

Thanks for the feedback.

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Will Stewart on July 7, 2008 - 4:28pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Another word commonly used in this situation is 'notional', meaning the data or graph is not intended to communicate empirical findings insomuch as it is a concept or visual framework. I understood what you meant.

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thirra on July 6, 2008 - 7:13pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Oilrig medic,this is the sort of pedantic nit picking I expect from climate change/peak oil deniers.Please read the article as a whole and with as open a mind as you can muster.That way you may be able to educate yourself in unfamiliar concepts.

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expat on July 7, 2008 - 5:38am Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Give it a break - his point was completely correct, his comments over several years have been valuable, and labelling someone pointing out factual errors (which you didn't even bother to discuss) as using 'pedantic nit picking' reflects pretty poorly on the person saying it, at least in this forum.

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Will Stewart on July 7, 2008 - 4:35pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

The charts were labeled as 'hypothetical', which to me meant notional. You, however, appear to have an axe to grind, and seem to prefer to persist in your misunderstanding.

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Oilrig medic on July 7, 2008 - 2:00pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Thira,

When you write a paper, any graphs or pictures jump out and stick in the mind of the reader. I just felt the things I pointed out detract from the papers credibility as a whole. When someone is talking to me about something I don't know if I catch a few obvious errors I start to suspect it all. That being said most of the article is weel written and all addiction pathways are the same no matter what the chemical. As long as you feel rewarded you reinforce the behavior to get the reward. However US consumption culture is not the rule for the world or for history. It is really a blip on the radar. If we can take the carbon out of the footprint by switching to Nukes + alternatives we will be OK in my opinion.
Pedantically yours,
Matt

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steve from Virginia on July 7, 2008 - 9:07pm Permalink | Subthread | Parent | Comments top

Hmmmm ... I always thought the two primary mental modes were greed and fear ...

Anyway, not to be nitpicky, but most of the people I know and myself included find modern life to be indescribably aggravating, harsh, unforgiving, hostile and boring. There is little in the way of novelty or stimulation. When we have had enough, we Americans 'go postal' with some of the billions of handguns and machine guns we collect. Or, we start bands ...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=AQFo2-xZiks

On the other hand, going to Venice (or Florence or Rome or any number of pre- oil places) is very stimulating, interesting, educational, filled with novelties, stimulations, surprises, delights, etc. I guess this is the difference between civilization and mere culture.

The good life does not exist within piles of junk labeled 'Made In China'. It exists in escaping the rat race. This concept is the best way to sell conservation to the zombies.

If Peak Oil destroys the rat race forever, more power to it!

:)

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179 comments on Status and Curiosity - On the Origins of Oil Addiction

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