Judging by the debates recorded at OpenAustralia.org, they seem pretty clueless.
A search of the Hansard for the term "peak oil" brings up only four mentions in the last few years.
Lindsay Tanner (ALP, Melbourne) who in 2006 mentioned what he called "Huppert's peak", and said,
One way or the other, [peak oil] is going to happen. If we do not gradually reduce our dependence on oil, then when it does happen the implications for Australia and other countries in similar circumstances will be immense.
At that time you will see the interaction of the forces of supply and demand producing very dramatic increases in price. What we have recently experienced in Australia with petrol prices will look pretty trivial compared with the kind of price increases that we may see when we are dealing with a genuinely global market and an increasingly scarce resource attached to ever-mounting demand. It makes sense that a nation like Australia should do everything it can to plan and prepare for that prospect, to diminish our reliance on oil, to develop alternative fuels and to ensure that we are as well placed as possible to ride out any disruption that those changes may bring. Even [if] it is 20 or 30 years away, we still need to be preparing for these things.
Mark Coulton (National Party, Parkes) in March 2008 talked about how he wanted more roads in his electorate, and spoke in favour of rail, but seems to think natural gas and ethanol can fill the gap (apart from a brief mention of solar), saying
With the world approaching peak oil—if we have not already reached that point—and the soaring cost of petroleum, we need to spend money now on energy and alternative energy infrastructure. In my electorate there are some exciting possibilities. There is an indication that the gas fields in the Pilliga forest, west of Narrabri, will be a large resource [...]
Another reason is to do with alternative fuels and the possibilities they bring, particularly ethanol: a reliable source of energy such as natural gas is vital to make the production of ethanol a viable alternative. As we run short of petroleum, we really are going to need to look at that issue.
Another source is solar energy.
Kelvin Thompson, (ALP, Wills) in May 2008 mentioned peak oil, saying,
Few people in the House will be unaware of the theory of peak oil—that there is simply not enough undiscovered oil on the planet to keep up with ever-increasing global demand and that we are therefore destined to suffer from reducing supplies and skyrocketing prices.
but went on simply to bash the Liberal-National coalition, implying that "market manipulation" was the only reason for price volatility, and the Iraq war the only reason for the general crude oil price rise (leaving unexplained the price rise before March 2003) and whinging that the coalition weren't praising the ALP enough on FuelWatch.
The simple reality is that world demand for fuel is driving up fuel prices and will continue to do so. At the same time it is well known that the use of fossil fuels have, for a long time, been a major cause of greenhouse gas pollution. Had Australia begun addressing petrol as an environmental issue a decade ago, we might have been better prepared and less dependent on petrol today and therefore not so much impacted by rising petrol prices. It is not only the price of petrol that needs to come down; it is as much our reliance on it. Oil is a finite resource and many experts believe we have reached our peak oil supplies—another warning that the Howard government seemed oblivious to.
It is imperative that Australia invest more in public transport systems. Increased use of public transport will reduce household reliance on motor vehicles, thereby reducing living costs and environmental damage.
and Zappia went on to quote a letter published in the Adelaide Adevertiser talking about peak oil at some length (for the Advertiser), and then drifted into the usual rubbishing of the other side.
In these four MPs' little rambles we can see a degree of progression: from awareness of the existence of the problem to offering solutions, however it's still not really an issue foremost in their minds - they're too concerned with day-to-day things like a couple of cents here or there on the price. Also, I think the current government, being in only seven months after more than a decade in Opposition, is still stuck in the Opposition mindset - just bashing the other guys and offering no real policies of their own.
Originally I was going to do a similar post on the search for "climate change" comments from MPs, but the results of that one, combined with finding that my local member's sole contribution to Parliamentary debate in 2008 thus far has been three interjections, has depressed me. So someone else will have to do the research.
i'd say lindsay tanner is up there with the people most aware of peak oil. but it's a lot tougher for him to talk about it in government than it was in opposition.
BARRIE CASSIDY: ...Maybe it is time for a bit of blunt advice, that you start telling people that you're stuck with higher petrol prices, and they ought to think about adjusting.
LINDSAY TANNER: Look, I don't think anybody's in a position to know that that's the position for the future, Barrie...
Actually, a fuller quote in context makes old Tanner seem to be as good or bad as he ever was.
[...] we're moving into a different world where the demand for oil is soaring. And the factors that are driving the petrol price up are the same factors that are driving the mining boom, that are driving the huge increases in Australia's income from coal and iron ore.
And that's billions of people, huge numbers of people seeing their living standards improve and large numbers of people moving into things like
driving cars.
So it's in some respects, the down side of the international factors driving the mining boom.
We have got a long term challenge here, to change the way we operate as a society. We've got huge urban congestion problems that we're committed to addressing. We've got big infrastructure problems, there's a big agenda here that we are committed to pursuing.
[my emphasis]
Immediately after your selective quote to make him look bad, we get,
But certainly we have got to prepare for that possibility. Our cities are creaking at the seams. They're all getting too congested.
We've got infrastructure problems that are the result of ten, 12 years of neglect in Brisbane, Sydney, Melbourne in particular. That's why
we've established the Building Australia fund, that's why we're committed to investing in infrastructure.
Because that's one of the significant elements that causes people to have to use a lot of petrol.
As always, a fuller reading gives a fuller understanding. Selective quoting gives a selective picture. It seems like Tanner hasn't declined in frankness.
Mind you, most of the rest of the discussion was the usual meaningless political ramblings, "We work hard, the other guys are lazy" but the journo encouraged that with "maybe you're working the public service too hard?" Sloppy stuff.
I am not sure how you conducted your search of the parliamentary debates in Hansard. It is of course quite possible to talk about the depletion of world oil supplies without actually mentioning the term “peak oil”, so a search using only that term may well have missed some useful contributions. Your list mentions only member of the House of Representative so I just did a very quick (and incomplete) search of the Senate Hansards from 1 January 2006 to the present using the search term “peak oil” and had no problem finding at least eight senators who spoke on this topic. There were more than thirty speeches which discussed peak oil (18 from Senator Milne alone) by senators representing the Liberals, Nationals, ALP, Greens and Democrats.
In the first line of my post I linked to OpenAustralia.org, which resources allows searches. I then gave a link which was my search for the words "peak oil". So if you are unsure, I suggest a more thorough reading of the passage you are unsure about.
Of course peak oil is more discussed in the Senate, we have the Greens there. But let's be honest, what matters is discussion in the House. Whoever commands a majority in the House is invited by the Governor General to form a government. It is in the House that the real decisions are made.
"Proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys, or imposing taxation, shall not originate in the Senate. [...]
"The Senate may not amend proposed laws imposing taxation, or proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys for the ordinary annual services of the Government.
"The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden on the people." (Constitution, Chap1 PtV sec53)
But they can send it back asking for an amendment. So the Senate cannot for example create a carbon tax, or raise one which is offered to them in a bill from the House.
So in terms of the big issues, only the government of the day can do anything about them. The House, by virtue of holding the government of the day, may act without the Senate, unless the Senate be entirely hostile (which happens every thirty years or so). But the Senate may not act without the House.
It's what's said and done in the House which really matters.
Your original post on this matter was in reply to Thirra’s asking whether “anybody in the government/opposition” understands the nation’s problems. I assumed, and I think most people would assume, that he meant all members of Parliament not just those in the lower house. Which is why I am surprised that you relied on the OpenAustralia.Org site which does not cover the Senate. Why not go directly to the horse’s mouth, the Australian Parliament website, where you could have searched for the contributions of all members of the Government and the Opposition and minor parties and independents? By choosing to look at only one house of Parliament you created the misleading impression that only four parliamentarians had spoken on peak oil.
Don't try to cover your sloppy reading by nitpicking pedantry and deliberate obtuseness. Let's focus on what's really being discussed here.
Thirra obviously does not think that of the couple of thousand or more federal, state and local elected representatives not one of them has any idea about fossil fuel depletion and climate change. He was obviously asking about people in a position to do something.
Thirra's literal question was whether anyone in Parliament at all knew what was going on, but at the heart of that was the question as to whether anyone in a position to do something about it knew what was going on.
And the answer is that some of them know about peak fossil fuels, but they obviously don't consider it a pressing issue; whereas they know well about climate change, consider it a pressing issue, and are doing counterproductive things about it.
Calm down - there's no reason to start flaming each other.
I think its fair to point to the Senators who have discussed peak oil, especially Senator milne who has mentioned it frequently.
You also (being pedantic) missed various state ministers of various levels of influence who are also following the issue - such as McNamara in Queensland and Alannah MacTiernan in WA (who managed to push through a new electrified rail line between Perth and Mandurah, for example).
Judging by the debates recorded at OpenAustralia.org, they seem pretty clueless.
A search of the Hansard for the term "peak oil" brings up only four mentions in the last few years.
Lindsay Tanner (ALP, Melbourne) who in 2006 mentioned what he called "Huppert's peak", and said,
Mark Coulton (National Party, Parkes) in March 2008 talked about how he wanted more roads in his electorate, and spoke in favour of rail, but seems to think natural gas and ethanol can fill the gap (apart from a brief mention of solar), saying
Kelvin Thompson, (ALP, Wills) in May 2008 mentioned peak oil, saying,
but went on simply to bash the Liberal-National coalition, implying that "market manipulation" was the only reason for price volatility, and the Iraq war the only reason for the general crude oil price rise (leaving unexplained the price rise before March 2003) and whinging that the coalition weren't praising the ALP enough on FuelWatch.
Anthony Zappia (ALP, Makin) in June 2008 said,
and Zappia went on to quote a letter published in the Adelaide Adevertiser talking about peak oil at some length (for the Advertiser), and then drifted into the usual rubbishing of the other side.
In these four MPs' little rambles we can see a degree of progression: from awareness of the existence of the problem to offering solutions, however it's still not really an issue foremost in their minds - they're too concerned with day-to-day things like a couple of cents here or there on the price. Also, I think the current government, being in only seven months after more than a decade in Opposition, is still stuck in the Opposition mindset - just bashing the other guys and offering no real policies of their own.
Originally I was going to do a similar post on the search for "climate change" comments from MPs, but the results of that one, combined with finding that my local member's sole contribution to Parliamentary debate in 2008 thus far has been three interjections, has depressed me. So someone else will have to do the research.
great find kiashu.. thanks for the quotes.
i'd say lindsay tanner is up there with the people most aware of peak oil. but it's a lot tougher for him to talk about it in government than it was in opposition.
Yes Phil, frankness seems to be the first casualty...
ABC "Insiders", 1st June 2008
Actually, a fuller quote in context makes old Tanner seem to be as good or bad as he ever was.
[my emphasis]
Immediately after your selective quote to make him look bad, we get,
As always, a fuller reading gives a fuller understanding. Selective quoting gives a selective picture. It seems like Tanner hasn't declined in frankness.
Mind you, most of the rest of the discussion was the usual meaningless political ramblings, "We work hard, the other guys are lazy" but the journo encouraged that with "maybe you're working the public service too hard?" Sloppy stuff.
Kiashu
I am not sure how you conducted your search of the parliamentary debates in Hansard. It is of course quite possible to talk about the depletion of world oil supplies without actually mentioning the term “peak oil”, so a search using only that term may well have missed some useful contributions. Your list mentions only member of the House of Representative so I just did a very quick (and incomplete) search of the Senate Hansards from 1 January 2006 to the present using the search term “peak oil” and had no problem finding at least eight senators who spoke on this topic. There were more than thirty speeches which discussed peak oil (18 from Senator Milne alone) by senators representing the Liberals, Nationals, ALP, Greens and Democrats.
Of course, in February 2007 the Senate also produced an excellent report which discussed peak oil in some detail see (http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/rrat_ctte/completed_inquiries/200... ) and it has also just appointed another committee to look into fuel and energy see http://www.aph.gov.au/Senate/committee/fuelenergy_ctte/tor.htm. [and also http://anz.theoildrum.com/node/4272 ]
In the first line of my post I linked to OpenAustralia.org, which resources allows searches. I then gave a link which was my search for the words "peak oil". So if you are unsure, I suggest a more thorough reading of the passage you are unsure about.
Of course peak oil is more discussed in the Senate, we have the Greens there. But let's be honest, what matters is discussion in the House. Whoever commands a majority in the House is invited by the Governor General to form a government. It is in the House that the real decisions are made.
"Proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys, or imposing taxation, shall not originate in the Senate. [...]
"The Senate may not amend proposed laws imposing taxation, or proposed laws appropriating revenue or moneys for the ordinary annual services of the Government.
"The Senate may not amend any proposed law so as to increase any proposed charge or burden on the people." (Constitution, Chap1 PtV sec53)
But they can send it back asking for an amendment. So the Senate cannot for example create a carbon tax, or raise one which is offered to them in a bill from the House.
So in terms of the big issues, only the government of the day can do anything about them. The House, by virtue of holding the government of the day, may act without the Senate, unless the Senate be entirely hostile (which happens every thirty years or so). But the Senate may not act without the House.
It's what's said and done in the House which really matters.
Your original post on this matter was in reply to Thirra’s asking whether “anybody in the government/opposition” understands the nation’s problems. I assumed, and I think most people would assume, that he meant all members of Parliament not just those in the lower house. Which is why I am surprised that you relied on the OpenAustralia.Org site which does not cover the Senate. Why not go directly to the horse’s mouth, the Australian Parliament website, where you could have searched for the contributions of all members of the Government and the Opposition and minor parties and independents? By choosing to look at only one house of Parliament you created the misleading impression that only four parliamentarians had spoken on peak oil.
Don't try to cover your sloppy reading by nitpicking pedantry and deliberate obtuseness. Let's focus on what's really being discussed here.
Thirra obviously does not think that of the couple of thousand or more federal, state and local elected representatives not one of them has any idea about fossil fuel depletion and climate change. He was obviously asking about people in a position to do something.
Thirra's literal question was whether anyone in Parliament at all knew what was going on, but at the heart of that was the question as to whether anyone in a position to do something about it knew what was going on.
And the answer is that some of them know about peak fossil fuels, but they obviously don't consider it a pressing issue; whereas they know well about climate change, consider it a pressing issue, and are doing counterproductive things about it.
Calm down - there's no reason to start flaming each other.
I think its fair to point to the Senators who have discussed peak oil, especially Senator milne who has mentioned it frequently.
You also (being pedantic) missed various state ministers of various levels of influence who are also following the issue - such as McNamara in Queensland and Alannah MacTiernan in WA (who managed to push through a new electrified rail line between Perth and Mandurah, for example).