 | Well, Hello Dolly! (Aw C'mon, Someone Had to Say It): Updated--Putting Dolly to Bed and Hoping She Causes Little Suffering | The Oil Drum | DrumBeat: July 22, 2008 |  |
176 comments on Misguided Energy Policies
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
176 comments on Misguided Energy Policies
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Support The Oil Drum
Recently on TOD:World
TOD:Campfire
TOD:Europe
- Peak Gold, Easier to Model than Peak Oil? - Part I
- Carbon Capture and Storage
- Oilwatch Monthly November 2009
TOD:Canada
- In this house, we obey the laws of thermodynamics!
- The Round-Up: October 24, 2008
- Compressed Air Energy Storage - How viable is it?
TOD:Australia/NZ
- International Energy Agency calls 'Peak' on OECD Oil Demand
- Australian Senate: Peak Oil motion defeated 31:6
- The Bullroarer - Friday 20th November 2009
TOD:Net Energy
Blogroll
Energy Sites
- The Coming Global Oil Crisis
- Die Off
- Dry Dipstick
- Energy Bulletin
- From the Wilderness
- Life After the Oil Crash
- Peak Oil Crisis
- Peak Oil News and Message Boards
- Powerswitch
- Rigzone
- Matthew Simmons
- Wolf at the Door
Environment & Sustainability Sites
- The Daily Green
- EcoGeek
- Eco Street
- Green Car Congress
- Green Options
- green.alltop.com
- Gristmill
- RealClimate
- Sustainablog
- Treehugger
- WorldChanging
Blogs
- Casaubon's Book
- Cleantech Blog
- Clusterf
k Nation (Jim Kunstler) - The Cost of Energy
- David Strahan
- Early Warning
- The Energy Blog
- European Tribune
- GraphOilology
- Health After Oil
- jeffvail.net
- Mobjectivist
- Peak Energy (Australia)
- Peak Energy (USA)
- R-Squared
- Resource Insights
Finance & Economics Blogs
- The Big Picture
- Calculated Risk
- The Crash Course
- Ecological Economics
- Econbrowser
- Environmental Economics
- Infectious Greed
- The Mess That Greenspan Made
- Mish's Global Economic Trend Analysis
Organizations
Peak Oil Primers
Beware email scams!
Beware email scams claiming to be from this site. We do not have any job openings. If anyone contacts you about a job at The Oil Drum, do not reply to them, and definitely do not give them any personal information or send them money. Read more here.
“Where ideas are concerned, America can be counted on to do one of two things: take a good idea and run it completely into the ground, or take a bad idea and run it completely into the ground.”
—George Carlin
User login
Contact
- Content: editors at theoildrum dot com
- Tech support: support at theoildrum dot com
Personnel
- Editors: Nate Hagens, Gail the Actuary, Prof. Goose
- DrumBeat Editor: Leanan
- Contributors: ace, Engineer-Poet, Heading Out, jeffvail, JoulesBurn, Sam Foucher, Robert Rapier
- TOD:Campfire: Glenn, Jason Bradford
- TOD:Europe: Chris Vernon, Euan Mearns, Francois Cellier, Jerome a Paris, Luís de Sousa, Rembrandt, Rune Likvern, Ugo Bardi
- TOD:Canada: benk, Libelle
- TOD:ANZ: Big Gav, Phil Hart, aeldric
- Emeritus: Stuart Staniford
- Technician: Super G
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.
GAIA Host Collective
The SPR is that secret stash of cigs buried in waterproof bags in the backyard. It does NOTHING to cure our addiction !
We are facing a chronic oil shortage, and the SPR is specifically designed for only acute (and relatively short lived) oil shortages.
The wrong weapon for the fight we face.
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight
Best Hopes for Carrots for Nicotine Addicts, and Non-Oil Transportation# for Oil Addicts
Alan
1. Electrified Railroads
2. Urban Rail
3. Bicycles
4. TOD/walkable neighborhoods
4.5 - NEVs & EVs
Along the same lines as your chronic/acute reference Alan, I think the “addiction” analogy is misleading.
We certainly are addicted to some of the wastefull uses of oil but IMO we need oil to live so maybe a better analogy would be like Blood Plasma. (still a needle in the arm)
It is a mistake to compare oil to drugs and imply that it is BAD and we should feel guilty, (maybe even declare a War On Oil?) this is the same old twisted propaganda mindset and we should not adopt it, we should resist it and inject rational terms and discussion.
If the general public only new the true value of oil as the live blood of civilization then it might be treated differently.
No dis on you RR just my feelings.
Cheers
I'm in agreement with this. RR's astute analysis notwithstanding, the addiction metaphor is completely wrong.
We do not need alcohol, tobacco, or drugs. We can "kick" these habits.
We need energy, and in this culture we really need oil.
The ninety-year-old woman down the street from me is not "addicted" to her oil furnace. She doesn't need a twelve-step program to get off her addiction to a heating system.
Addiction metaphors also lead to AA/substance abuse treatment claptrap.
There must be a better way to describe our DEPENDENCE on oil.
So my ninety-year-old neighbor is ADDICTED to her oil furnace?
She doesn't need it? Her need is the same as an alcoholic's need?
Most people are NOT addicted to alcohol or drugs. EVERYONE needs energy in some way.
I'll ignore your personal attack in your last statement.
So my ninety-year-old neighbor is ADDICTED to her oil furnace?
Your neighbor needs energy. Energy can come from many different sources. Just because we have made it such that oil is the cheap, easy option doesn't change the fact that it is an addiction.
OK. Suit yourself. You're a good writer and probably can get good mileage out of the addiction metaphor.
But I don't buy it.
An addiction is a biological dependence on a substance that could be completely eradicated from one's life, unlike energy, which must come in some form. One doesn't need a substance to replace the alcohol, the way one need vast quantities of SOMETHING to continue to run one's highway, heating, and food systems.
My poor neighbor literally can do nothing to "get off" her furnace. She's on meals on wheels!
You say "we" have made oil the cheap option, and that may be the key to seeing where the metaphor breaks down: addiction is about one individual's body. There is no "we" that has forced the alcoholic into his addiction.
My last word: alcoholism/addiction is to oil dependence as a flagellum is to planet Saturn.
Yes, food, energy, etc., they are all necessities. That makes the true framing of this problem even more dire and complex than is presented by the addiction metaphor.
So, I hear what you're saying, but you are making it sound like Robert is being intentionally obtuse in his usage of the terms.
Addiction may not be the most accurate frame in this case, but it is the easier frame to understand for many--and it is probably 60 or 70% valid.
Perhaps in an informed group like this, the addiction frame doesn't work. Or it may be better said that we are addicted to the "easy" nature of oil? or addicted to the lifestyle it currently provides?
Even in the cartoon up top, Uncle Sam represents a lot of different ideas. We can deconstruct what all of that means, but we can also get the simple message: there is a problem and it needs to be addressed by means other the providing more of what causes the disease.
Banish the thought!
I wish him luck navigating this troublesome trope (as it were).
Thought banished. :)
"Or it may be better said that we are addicted to the "easy" nature of oil? or addicted to the lifestyle it currently provides?"
That suggests there's something wrong with "easy", or a "lifestyle" of inexpensive, abundant material posessions.
I would agree that we need to bite the bullet and invest in our future by replacing oil with energy sources that are more sustainable; reduce our impact on the planet; and move beyond trying to achieve happiness solely through posessions, but I'm troubled by the implication that there's something morally wrong with abundant energy and prosperity per se.
An addiction is a biological dependence on a substance that could be completely eradicated from one's life, unlike energy, which must come in some form.
And there's the rub. Energy. We may need energy, but energy comes in many forms. I hope we change out an oil addiction some day for a more desirable addiction to solar power.
Think of this in terms of food. A person can be addicted to sugar. This isn't changed by the fact that they require food for survival. Just as all food is not sugar, all energy is not oil.
And thats what virtually everyone needs to develop...FLEXIBILITY. One is "addicted" when the only way to heat the home is an obselete oil furnace. Or the way over-powered petrol/diesel swilling vehicle. Or living in a exurb/suburb way away from your job/public trans.
My current fav gripe is the lack(in this market) of high-quality ULSDiesel. Ya cant have small, clean-running diesel engines without it. Without jumping thru a bunch of hoops. Many vehicles could easily be getting 30% better mileage.
And certainly most alternatives need to be pursued with gusto.
Just like the smack addict bemoaning the adulterated cut rubbish that is pushed instead of the nice clean pure heroin...I've got it! We should invade the heroin supplying countries and get holdof their really good stuff. Now who supplies heroin again...?
"An addiction is a biological dependence on a substance that could be completely eradicated from one's life (OIL), unlike energy, which must come in some form (electricity)"
"My poor neighbor literally can do nothing to "get off" her furnace"
So buy her an electric heater. Or a good sleeping bag.
http://www.timesargus.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080720/FEATURES05...
TIA.
addiction metaphor. But I don't buy it.
Addiction would normally imply an unhealthy relationship.
I doubt any regular reader of TOD would claim the human - oil relationship is 'healthy'.
No, your ninety year old neighbor is not addicted to her oil (furnace).
Maybe here is where the difference lies between our two points of view. When I see oil addiction, I am not referring to an individual, but to an economic system. You are carrying the metaphor down to the individual (perhaps because you have accepted the validity of the economic system?)
Please be careful not to conflate oil and energy. It is true that most people are not addicted to alcohol or drugs. But that tells us little about the addict. The non-addict uses alcohol to relax, as a social lubricant, or perhaps just to work against heart disease. Addicts define themselves in relationship to alcohol.
As for the "personal attack" - it was not meant as such. It was meant to point out that you were using the same sort of "excusing" language that an addict uses to justify their use to themself. I learned this the hard way. I did not intend it as an insult.
The oil furnace is something I think about every winter. I don't live in the Northeast so I don't know that much about them. But I always wonder what it would take to covert those to electricity.
It is just embarassing to take heating oil from Hugo Chavez.
I would love to see wind turbines generating the electricity to heat those homes in the winter. Is that an insane fantasy?
I've been thinking about this a lot as well since we have oil heat and I can only expect that the cost of heating our house is going to become unaffordable in a few years or less. Without going into the full-on solar panels, I've been looking into solar air heating panels. It's considerably more affordable, but I need to find out if it will supply enough heat here in "sunny" Seattle.
Crunchy, speaking as a former Seattleite, I suspect you'll have better results with a ground loop heat pump than with the solar air heating modules. You might want to compare them before you buy.
Chris - thanks for the tip. I'll see what I can dig up. Ha ha ha.
BTW, I just finished reading your book, Profit from the Peak, and I totally loved it. I'll be letting my peeps know about it as many are looking for a book on Peak Oil that isn't all doomsday and conjecture. You guys did an awesome job - I can't say enough good things about it, but I'll stop here.
Thanks very much! I'm glad you found it informative. Good luck with your project.
Hi Not a Rock,
Provided you have sufficient panel capacity, it's a relatively simple matter of installing electric coils in the supply plenum. Dual fuel space heating is popular in Québec where discounted electricity is used when outside temperatures are above -12C or -15C (it varies by region); as temperatures fall and the Hydro-Québec network is more heavily taxed, an outside temperature sensor automatically flips the system back to oil. It's a smart approach -- the customer gets a great deal (at 4.33 cents per kWh, it's like buying oil at less than $1.50 per gallon) and the utility gets to drop load as colder temperatures ramp up demand. Furthermore, it discourages homeowners from replacing their existing oil heating systems with a 25 or 30 kW electric furnace which would only further add to peak demand during these extremely cold periods.
That said, if electricity is to be consumed for space heating purposes, it should be used to operate a heat pump where you can typically double or triple the amount of heat supplied from every kWh consumed.
Cheers,
Paul
I think heat pumps only give you better efficiency above freezing....to get double or triple the heat as you would get from resistive means 40-50oF. At -15C you would probably do better with resistive, or if possible an advantageous set of circumstances for a ground loop.
If anyone knows more, I would really like to learn.
-dr
Hi dr_dr,
Actually, their performance is better than what you may think. I live in Zone 4 (7,800 HDD) and in this climate the HSPF rating of the Fujitsu 9RLQ and larger 12RLQ are 11.0 and 10.55 respectively. Both models operate down to -15C (i.e., Hydro-Québec’s transfer point) and over the course of the winter would provide an average of 3.1+ kWh of heat for every kWh consumed.
A couple days ago, I made reference to Mitsubishi's new h2i line of Mr. Slim ductless heat pumps. These models supply 100 per cent of their rated heating capacity at -15C, 87 per cent at -20C and 75 per cent at -25C and can operate for more than four hours at these sub-freezing temperatures before executing a defrost cycle. The discharge air temperature at -25C is +38C. Their HSPF is 9.4, so the seasonal COP is 2.76 -- for a Hydro-Québec customer under the dual-energy rate structure, the operating costs of this particular heat pump are the equivalent of fuel oil priced at 13.8 cents a litre or 52 cents per gallon (82% AFUE).
I developed a spreadsheet model based on ten-years' worth of hourly temperature data to verify the theoretical performance of the Fujitsu 12RLQ and 15RLQ. My home is a 40-year old, 2,500 sq. ft. Cape Cod that has been extensively upgraded in terms of its thermal efficiency and I estimate my current space heating demand at 12,277 kWh per year (1,400 litres/370 U.S. gallons of fuel oil at 82% AFUE). If my numbers are correct, a 12RLQ can easily supply 80 per cent of my total annual needs and the seasonal COP in this case is an estimated 3.32.
The spreadsheet is over 58,000 rows in size, but you can view the summary data (and assumptions) in PDF format here: http://www.datafilehost.com/download-a8dfaf4c.html
Cheers,
Paul
Think of your ninety-year-old neighbor as one of those brain cells with all the opioid receptors on it. Without the drugs, that brain cell will die. But at the organism level, it is an addiction. Think of "civilization", or "democracy" or "the free world" or whatever as the organism, and you have analogy.
Like all analogies, perhaps it is not perfect ;)
Agreed - no analogy is perfect, but this one seems quite apt.
I should mention that according to the NIH, opiate withdrawal, including heroin, is rarely fatal (despite being very unpleasant). Whereas untreated DTs in severe alcoholics has something like a 30% fatality rate.
Heavy morphine users have been known to live into their 80s and beyond when the dosage is regulated. Alcohol, on the other hand, when used to excess is *guaranteed* to destroy your liver and other organs.
Non-moderate alcohol consumption is a dirty, dirty drug.
We're starting to get the shakes. I need a drink.
If we have to stick with a medical metaphor (seems like everything is medicalized these days-- similar to the Middle Ages when everything had a religious metaphor) then perhaps we need to think of it as a legitimate pharmaceutical -- like Crixivan (or whatever) to an AIDS patient. They can't survive without it, but they aren't "addicted" in the normal sense of the word.
Said by MikeB:
The addiction is not to a heating system, but to a heating system powered by fuel oil. Her addiction is an absolute refusal to switch to a heating system that uses a different fuel even though the rising price of fuel oil may break her budget or the declining production may cause shortages leaving her with a cold house. Her addiction is the assertion that fuel oil is a necessity while it was absent for the vast majority of human history. Warm shelter is a necessity, but a shelter heated by fuel oil is not. The analogy to an addiction lies in the attitude: a refusal to acknowledge the problem and fix it.
"We need energy, and in this culture we really need oil."
seem just one small step away from
" 'merkuns have a right to cheap oil".
The ninety year old lady lving down the street, in a house heated only for herself an no others is the real problem that she is addicted to. "Independent" living is just so un-natural for humans and is only made possible by the massive fossil fuel subsidy we enjoy today. In earlier times, she would be living with and cared for by her family or she'd be dead. We are going to have to get off the idea of heating vast cavernous homes that are occupied by very few people. Learning to live locally means thinking about the space you occupy even within the home.
We (the USA) will certainly need substantial amounts off oil (more than we produce) for quite some time to function at anything close to current levels.
But, longer term (an absolute minimum of 20 years IMO, 30 years without an emergency), we can reduce oil use to specialty applications such as lubricants, farming (ammonia power has possibilities but that will take longer), aviation, shipping and a few others.
Step One is to create a Non-Oil Transportation system as an alternative to our oil based one for many, but not all needs & wants. Step Four may be a phased shut-down of our oil based transportation system.
Best Hopes,
Alan
Oil is used for lubricants, and for plastics and pharmaceuticals; fertilizer comes from natural gas.
We are not addicted to oil for which there is compelling need. Such as the above.
Oil does not have to be used for transportation (the largest waste of oil today), or for power (and it is not). We need to preserve what is left for future plastics, lubricants and pharmaceuticals; we need to hold on to natural gas to use as stock for fertilizers.
That is not to say we are not addicted to oil. Our addiction is in the form of automobile transportation. But, the administration says to drill, drill, drill so they can drive their Hummers and SUVs.
If you want to make changes, it will be in mass transit (how about electric power for trains; high speed city center to city center at 450 mpg without using any oil), including street railways, short range electric automobiles (gets you to the bus station/street car or to the supermarket, but no good for suburban commuting), etc. Also, bike paths along all streets and roads.
So... I do not mind the metaphor of addiction, so long as it is understood that it is in that specific area. My 90 year old neighbor can keep her furnace - but maybe we will want to run it on electric power at some point?
Now there is a bold assertion of the irrational if I ever did see one. Do you realize what you have said here? This is precisely the argument every addict makes.
As for oil not being "BAD" - this is an assumption on your part, please do not assume that all here are going to share that viewpoint.
I am trying to look at the limits of what I think is an extremely inadequate metaphor, and you keep attacking me.
This is the last time I respond to you.
mikeB - this was in response to souperman's post, not yours.
But I do wonder why you see this as a personal attack? It is an observation about the choice of language used. Is that not what you are doing by arguing against the addiction metaphor? I'm simply saying the the language souperman used (and that you used elsewhere) was actually consistent with the metaphor you said you were rejecting.
Please, (no sarcasm intended), explain to me the offense taken and I will gladly apologize and refrain from using such an approach in the future.
Ehh... fact is we are going to run out of oil. Then those who "need oil to live" will die. And life will be better forever after.
We certainly are addicted to some of the wastefull uses of oil but IMO we need oil to live so maybe a better analogy would be like Blood Plasma. (still a needle in the arm)
I disagree. We don't 'need' oil to live. At present, we need oil to live the lifestyle to which we have become accustomed. In the long run, we need energy. To live our current lifestyle, we need a lot of energy. We could, in my opinion, make some radical changes to our living arrangements and kick the oil habit. At the least, we can drastically reduce it, but it would be very hard, expensive, and require a lot of sacrifice.
Thus, I think the addiction analogy - which of course was not my invention - is appropriate. Addictions are hard to beat. The heroin addict 'needs' heroin lest they suffer horrible withdrawal symptoms. But the fact that they need it doesn't mean it isn't an addiction, nor that withdrawal is impossible.
As far as your comments on the life blood of civilization or that our dependence upon oil isn't bad - many of those concerned about global warming or peak oil would disagree sharply. It is bad in that it enables us to engage in unsustainble practices that will come to an abrupt end as supplies deplete.
There was civilization before oil. The oil is going to run out. Yet I believe there will be civilization after oil.
And it's the path between here and there that gives me almost complete pause. I continue to hope that we are smart enough to "go backwards" where we need to and "go forwards" where we can.
I have recently been reading about the roots of the Industrial Revolution. The key thing about industrial civilization is the concentration of production, i.e. from cottage to factory. That is made a lot easier with a high density energy source, but it's conceivable that the Ind. Revolution would have happened without coal.
The key questions are therefore can we still have modern civilization without industrialization? And can we run industry with more diffuse energy sources? (I include agriculture in industry).
The key questions are therefore can we still have modern civilization without industrialization?
Depends. What %age of production is taken by 'the government' and how is that %age used?
If I was able to I'd add "Heroin withdrawal is just really nasty for a while then you get over it" to the list which includes "Lemmings run off cliffs en mass" and "Frogs don't jump out of slowly heating water" as triggers for a universal internet edit bot.
People die all the time as a consequence of unmanaged heroin withdrawal attempts, often due to overdose after relapse while in a state of reduced drug tolerance. Neonatal opiate withdrawal (newborns from addicted mothers) is potentially life threatening.
It is in my opinion so close to being "content free" as an analogy that I find it almost always an unhelpful digression in serious discussion.
Best hopes for practicing BAC (Bogus Analogy Control)...
Actually, I have known quite a few people who were addicted to drugs, so I have seen it first hand. I had friends from high school who went to prison for drug problems. I know exactly how difficult it can be to break addictions, and in many cases the difficulty is physical, and as you say life-threatening. I indicated as much with "severe withdrawal symptoms." But that doesn't mean that the addict can't recover. The lemming example is a myth. My example is not.
But your example again emphasizes why the analogy is appropriate. Removing oil from oil lives would also be life-threatening right now. The withdrawal will need to be carefully managed, and it will be resisted fiercely by many.
People also die all the time from driving their car to the store. That doesn't mean a given instance of car driving is especially dangerous.
This is my area of study, and I can say with confidence that death from uncomplicated opiate withdrawal in adults is extremely rare. So rare that it's difficult to find cases. Even death from relapse and overdose is rare. The majority of opiate overdose deaths stem from:
1) Concomitant use of alcohol or tranquilizers.
2) Cuts and impurities, particularly quinine, which on occasion causes acute pulmonary edema in susceptible individuals.
Sorry, this is all OT, but misinformation bothers me.
bananasandramen:
Certainly was not my intent to misinform, so thanks for this. My first hand knowledge of such things comes from my earlier work as an EMT, and I would not doubt that, for example, alcohol or other meds might have been a complicating factor in what I saw. A junkies world is often not a "simple place" :-(
Np. You're definitely right, the situation is almost always complex, with confounding factors like poly-substance use, malnutrition, infections, etc. Alcohol is by far the biggest danger, and a great many deaths could be avoided if people were simply told not to combine alcohol and heroin, perhaps with pamphlets at needle exchanges and methadone clinics.
This is one of those topics where there's just SO much misinformation out there, so I try to correct mistakes whenever I see them. I'm sure you saw a lot of junkies in bad shape as an EMT? Because of a combination of public ignorance and misguided drug policy, addicts can't get work and have to pay obscene prices for their drugs. Consequently, they end up sick, weak, and poor, which greatly increases the risk of dying from all sorts of things. I think we will see a lot fewer drug related deaths post peak, simply because the government won't have the resources for a drug war and people will have more pressing targets for their hatred than drug addicts.
There are soooooooo many things made from FFs and yes some of them we need in order to live.
The article on hospitals and peak oil (sorry no link) illustrates this perfectly.
Also, a scientist friend of mine who has been contemplating PO since we met, says his biggest fear is that without FFs there are no clean rooms and BAM! its over.
Not sure on this one but he is truely freaked about it.
There are soooooooo many things made from FFs and yes some of them we need in order to live.
Can you name one that can't be produced via an alternative method?
Oh! So we are going to wait for "alternatives" for all applications.
I would say plastics are a biggie, and no there are no truely viable long chain carbon alternatives to UHMWPE for grandma's hip. I know she doesn't NEED the hip but I hope you get my point.
But you bring up an interesting topic that someone with better chops than I may wish to address.
Yikes! Please clarify Robert that you did not just drag a huge 'Strawman' out and drop it in the middle of the floor, such would be beneath you.
A strawman? How on earth would that be a strawman? The claim was that many things are made from fossil fuels and are required for life. Thus, the continuation of the logic for why this is not an addiction. To that, I say that these things need not be made by fossil fuels. We choose to make them from fossil fuels because it is easy.
It's sort of like saying "I require broccoli in order to live." It wouldn't a strawman if someone asked if I couldn't get by on brussels sprouts. We seem to confuse that which is convenient and low cost for that which is a necessity of life.
I don’t get it. You know damn well what I am talking about.
Without FF feedstocks for chemical, pharmaceutical, agracultureal inputs, etc. billions of people will die in short order.
We are WAY past addiction. These people were brought into this world and exist primarily because of oil.
Are there alternatives for all these necessities? For any given individual, perhaps. For all of them no chance in hades.
I am just stating my opinion but I think that addiction is a bad analogy and in fact is harmful in explaining the situation the world is in.
A better cartoon might show Uncle Sam in a hospital bed with an IV in his arm.
wow, creepy. Cool, but... creepy.
The artist did a whole series. His website is here; he was in a local San Francisco peak oil/climate change art show a few years back. I loved what he'd done then.
On the first link above click on the image and then follow the arrows. His art in book form may not be a good first introduction to peak oil for your family though, heh.
looks like you missed the first link (it links to "/") second link is cool though =). To add an off color remark: that's one nasty case of pubic lice
Sorry, it is linked from the art show page but it's http://selfdestructionart.com/
I don’t get it. You know damn well what I am talking about.
I guess I don't, because you seem to be saying that we can only make these things from oil, and that no alternative means is possible. That is almost universally not true. We make them from oil because it is the cheap, easy route.
Take butanol. It was made from biological means for years before it was made from oil. But it is much more expensive and slow. But it can still be made the old way.
Correct. It's a 'Strawman' because the problem is not simply making a liter of octane, for example, starting with something other than light sweet crude. That is necessary but not sufficient; I think we mostly here know enough about organic chemistry to know that there are dozens of ways to achieve such a thing.
'Substitutes' are only potentially mass life savers if they will scale up, in the time available before depletion curves overtake, at a price which is affordable in absolute terms, and without generating some other disaster as a side effect (to name just some of the most obvious constraints).
The 'We', mentioned above, for now, are not the folks reading this blog but the folks eating "green revolution" crops, trucked into the the worlds mega cities, and subsisting on $2 per day, for whom $140 oil is in fact far from "low cost" in terms of the viability of their cultures life support systems currently in place.
And you know all this Robert, clearly, it pains me to have to restate it in fact, so what is going on here?
Yeah, how could any intelligent person not be a doomer? It doesn't make sense. We all know that billions of people will die very soon due to lack of FF, and there is no other possibility. Send him for re-education.
Medicine at the Crossroads of Energy and Global Warming
http://www.greens.org/s-r/45/45-05.html
Our medical system: it's time to face peak oil
http://www.energybulletin.net/38046.html
Public health and the precautionary principle: the case of peak oil
http://www.energybulletin.net/15535.html
Wharf Rat: I was hoping you'd show up! My article of last week was about this very topic--misguided energy policies--and has a literary angle I think you will appreciate:
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse - Energy and the Politics of Partisan Paralysis
Thanks.
It's brother to brother and it's man to man
And it's face to face and it's hand to hand...
We shadowdance the silent war within.
The shadowdance, it never ends...
Never ends, never ends.
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse, yet again...
Yet again.
Shadowboxing the Apocalypse,
And wandering the land.
I knew you'd get it! (I was surprised at how few did...I guess it was a fairly obscure reference.)
Perhaps the general malady for a lot of things that plague us is over consumption. New OCD - Over Consumption Disorder.
I rather envision a 'toon that shows a big fat Sam sitting at the dinner table gobbling up large and varied sources of oil. Perhaps Bush and Boxer-Pelosi can be "waiters" bringin Sam new helpings of oil from the OCS/ANWR and the SPR - respectively.
Note that even if the USA were to reduce it's oil appetite to be more in line with the average of the rest of the world there woudl still be a PO and GW problem - deferred a bit perhaps, but still there.
Pete
Don't bring a knife to a gunfight
Not even if it is a wasp?
http://www.waspknife.com/
(under the man, you gotta be twisted to even think that is a good plan)
If, in a duel, I had a choice of that silly contraption or a gun, I'd choose the gun. At ten paces. Let 'im try to throw the stupid thing.
(Cue the Indiana Jones footage with the arab guy twirling a scimitar... You know the one -- Indy has time to shrug and make a silly face before he draws)