The Oil Drum

150 comments on DrumBeat: July 26, 2008

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westexas on July 26, 2008 - 8:55am

And how about nuts? (The food kind, not the Cornucopian kind, although I suppose one could make a case for using Cornucopians as a food source, but I digress)

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Wharf Rat on July 26, 2008 - 9:31am

Both.
And, if you can, learn how to graft and to prune. You can find out how from books, but it is better to take a class, if one is offered near you.
http://www.amazon.com/Western-Fruit-Horticultural-Publishers/dp/08958607...
http://www.biblio.com/details.php?dcx=29471339&aid=frg2

We got most of our trees from Sonoma Antique Apples, now called Trees of Antiquity.
http://www.treesofantiquity.com/ They UPS bare root trees in late winter and early spring. I thnk it's probably better to find sources with roughly the same climate as yours (is now?).

Rat

PS ...Sgage; thin the fruit. Leave only one every 4-6 inches.

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rawguy on July 26, 2008 - 10:21am

Nuts are good; they're high in fat, and a healthy diet has small amounts of fat. Fat can be converted to calories, but it takes a lot more of the body's energy to make the conversion; therefore, fat isn't the preferred fuel (it's more for cell lubrication). Thus, the caloric EROI is not as good as fruits, but if that's all there is, they'll do in a pinch.

On the other hand, fruit sugar converts to muscle glycogen without much tax; it's a cleaner burning fuel.

rawguy

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wolverine on July 26, 2008 - 12:45pm

Nuts are also valuable for their protein content. This will help maintain muscle quality and mass in lieu of animal-based proteins that may become scarcer with increasingly costly energy.

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Bryant on July 26, 2008 - 2:05pm

Fat can be converted to calories, but it takes a lot more of the body's energy to make the conversion; therefore, fat isn't the preferred fuel (it's more for cell lubrication). Thus, the caloric EROI is not as good as fruits, but if that's all there is, they'll do in a pinch.

That sounds like seriously flawed reasoning, can you back up that statement with some factual material?

My reading suggests that fat is one of the critical factors in surviving on a subsistence diet. Many cultures, including the those on the Korean peninsula raised animals for fat production.

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biologist on July 27, 2008 - 7:48pm

There is a lot of biochemistry to this, see the textbooks for details (e.g. Lehninger or Stryer). I don't have the exact efficiency numbers at my fingertips but they don't seem to be the main thing. Fat has a much higher energy content than carbohydrates and is the preferred long-term fuel for most body tissues. However, the brain runs on glucose only, and on some weird stuff called ketone bodies in case of starvation. This is a reason for trying to have a balanced diet that has both fat and carbohydrates. In addition to the above, carbohydrates can be mobilized quickly and some energy can be extracted from them in the absence of oxygen (e.g. overworked muscle), whereas fat can only be used in the presence of oxygen. On top of this, glucose/carbohydrates can be converted into fat easily, but not the other way round. All together, "fats burn in the flame of carbohydrates" as Stryer puts it on p. 478 of the third edition...

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ET on July 26, 2008 - 8:44pm

Nuts are good; they're high in fat, and a healthy diet has small amounts of fat. Fat can be converted to calories, but it takes a lot more of the body's energy to make the conversion; therefore, fat isn't the preferred fuel (it's more for cell lubrication). Thus, the caloric EROI is not as good as fruits, but if that's all there is, they'll do in a pinch.

On the other hand, fruit sugar converts to muscle glycogen without much tax; it's a cleaner burning fuel.

Lots of stuff here to contest. My own reading leads me to believe that a healthy diet is high in fat and protein and low in veggie carbs and totally void of sugars and refined carbs. The 'cell lubrication' thing really has me scratching my head.

Meat is premium food. If one has to be a veggie, nut protein is probably the best bet for the high protein in a healthy diet. Too much fructose, IMO, can be bad, since it is matabolized by the liver into fat. Fruits are probably good in moderation.

Read 'Good Calories, Bad Calories'

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Burgundy on July 26, 2008 - 11:30am

I've got a hazel nut tree, but I've also got a squirrel (was two but the cat got one). The existing mature orchard seems to have gone into a 2+ year cycle for some reason (maybe a weather problem) and birds (blackbirds in particular), insect and disease take their toll too. The most reliable producer I've found so far are the two mature walnut trees (although storing the nuts is problematic with the door mice, although the cat dispatched one yesterday).

Any good books on organic orchard keeping BTW?

Nature's great, but when you start competing with it for food, man does it fight back. Oh! And I lost a chestnut tree to the heat two years ago. That old Climate Change can deliver a knock-out blow any time. Whatever people do, diversify as much as is practical would be my tip. Resilience, resilience, resilience!