![]() | "Energy Resources and Our Future" - Speech by Admiral Hyman Rickover in 1957 | The Oil Drum | DrumBeat: August 11, 2008 | ![]() |
![]() | An Oil Production Model from Roger Bentley | The Oil Drum: Europe | What Future for Coal in South Africa? | ![]() |
83 comments on Countdown to $200 oil (10) - oil at $115!!
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
83 comments on Countdown to $200 oil (10) - oil at $115!!
Comments can no longer be added to this story.
| Show without comments | PDF version
Search The Oil Drum with Google
Blogroll
- ASPO The official site of the Association for the Study of Peak Oil & Gas.
- Energy Bulletin Clearing house for news regarding the peak in global energy supply.
- PowerSwitch Dedicated to raising awareness & discussion of the impending & permanent decline of cheap oil & gas supply.
- ODAC Oil Depletion Analysis Centre working to raise awareness and promote better understanding of the world's oil-depletion problem.
- Global Public Media Public service broadcasting for a post carbon world.
- Post Carbon Institute Learning to live in a low energy world.
- PeakOil.com US site and forum to educate and promote awareness of global hydrocarbon depletion.
- FEASTA The Foundation for the Economics of Sustainability
- Tradable Energy Quotas (TEQs) This website describes an effective and fair response both to climate change and oil/gas depletion
- Aleklett's Energy Mix Global Energy Systems, Peak Oil, etc
- www.SamassaVeneessä.info Finnish peak oil site
Other Blogs
User login
Personnel
Editors
Contributors
Peak Oil Primers
Archives
- November 2009
- October 2009
- September 2009
- August 2009
- July 2009
- June 2009
- May 2009
- April 2009
- March 2009
- February 2009
- January 2009
- December 2008
- November 2008
- October 2008
- September 2008
- August 2008
- July 2008
- June 2008
- May 2008
- April 2008
- March 2008
- February 2008
- January 2008
- December 2007
- November 2007
- October 2007
- September 2007
- August 2007
- July 2007
- June 2007
- May 2007
- April 2007
- March 2007
- February 2007
- January 2007
- December 2006
- November 2006
- October 2006
- September 2006
- August 2006
- July 2006
- June 2006
- May 2006
- April 2006
- March 2006
Vital Trivia
License
This work is licensed under a Creative Commons Attribution-Share Alike 3.0 United States License.




GAIA Host Collective
Jerome,
many thanks for this olympian perspective on our ongoing energy woes.
The graph, for a start, is a sweetly informative item, since, far from showing a peak price being reached,
thus far it appears to show generally steeper rises after each significant reversal.
Thus the rate of oil price increase/year may itself be accelerating somewhat ?
With regard to the policy priority that should be given to demand reduction,
I would agree that this should be paramount,
specifically in those industrial societies where power & energy use is patently profligate.
However, the fact is (as seen since the sixties) that achieving demand reduction
is disliked by industrial planners & financiers even more than initiating sustainable energy supply.
In addition to which, there are very large populations now aspiring just to get an energy supply,
meaning that the worldwide R,D&D of both village & city-scale sus. energy supply
(without which fossil fuel competition will be all the more desperate)
is the entirely necessary complement to the sufficient demand-reduction that you urge.
You write:
"We have to reduce our demand. Let's do it in an organized way rather than a panicked, haphazard, inconsistent way. And that's where government can help, by providing longer term pespective, informing citizens, pushing infrastructure in the relevant direction, and bringing up standards that apply to all equally and guide individual behavior in the right (Energy Smart) direction.
Price mechanisms work, but they are brutal, hurt the poor the most, and cause unnecessary disruption to economic activity, and pain to many. And they are fickle, as the current volatility (which, as I explained above, is likely to remain) causes rapidly changing signals which prevent decisions from being taken."
All of which I'd applaud as a very succinct layout of the case for proactive national & regional governance,
and against a reliance merely on the application of inequitable, inefficient and unpopular price mechanisms.
Yet I think there is further to go on this,
in that success at the global diplomatic level of governments' agreement on burden sharing -
is plainly a prior condition for successful governance within national borders.
Otherwise, how long would national industries wait for their foreign competitors to invest in the vital changes ?
A further question arises over the potential allocation of national energy usage rights,
since the global climate policy framework of "Contraction & Convergence" [aka: C&C]
which offers a close proxy for energy usage rights in the form of national greenhouse-gas emissions entitlement,
is now under increasingly cogent discussion in the run up to the UN's Copenhagen Conference next year,
having won EU, African & Indian endorsement, among others.
In case this framework may be new to you, here is a banner-scale description, being :
CONTRACTION
of global emissions to respect the Earth's capacity,
& CONVERGENCE
of all nations' emission rights to per capita parity.
(A properly detailed account of the principle & its dynamics, plus analysis, endorsements, etc,
can be found at www.gci.org.uk)
Your critique of price mechanisms is, I'd respectfully suggest, addressing badly flawed models,
than which we can and must do much better.
I say "must", to reflect the urgency of our position -
since an equitable and efficient price mechanism could optimize the viable rate of change
both for oil [fossil-energy] addicts and for impoverished masses in need of basic energy supplies
surely it behoves us to try to advance the adoption of such a mechanism ASAP ?
Sadly there is as yet little open discussion on the web of this need.
The C&C framework was developed around 1990 to facilitate the necessary shift
from emissions (energy-usage) rights reflecting sheer national wealth
with those rights Converging (over a period of years to be negotiated)
to reflect national population size, i.e. per capita parity (at an agreed date).
An annual Contraction in the global emissions budget has also to be agreed by the national signatories to the UNFCCC,
in light of the climate science provided by the IPCC and its researchers,
to achieve an atmospheric CO2 (equivalent) concentration that will avoid further decay in climatic stability.
In light of negotiations to date, those national entitlements would, undoubtedly, be tradeable at least in part,
meaning that industrialized nations would increasingly need to buy entitlement from poorer more populous nations,
with the payments being verifiably ring-fenced to investment in UN accredited mitigation & adaption projects.
Notably, it would seem not beyond the wit of humanity to codify in the forthcoming treaty
poor nation's right to receive sufficient energy supply (at a preferential rate) to meet basic subsistence needs
as part payment-in-kind for emission-entitlements sold.
In this manner the international contagion of social & economic destabilization may at least be limited,
if not actually avoided altogether.
________________________________________________________________________
The above is just a first attempt at utilizing the global C&C framework
in the forthcoming "Treaty of the Atmospheric Commons"
to ameliorate effectively the excess energy demand and supply scarcity -
so I'd appreciate your thoughts on this option.
Regards
Backstop
The Oil Depletion Protocol is another way to achieve this which deals specifically with oil independentley of other fossil fuels.
Contraction and Convergence to achieve carbon reduction goals sounds like a nice idea, where the poor are lifted from their misery and the rich just have to give up a little bit of there energy which should be seamlessly replaced by efficiency technology and new clean green alternatives.
The reality is that even in so called rich countries there is a stratification of incomes which range from extremely wealthy to dirt poor and it will inevitably be the richest of the rich who end up with more energy than the poorest of the rich. It will be a hard sell politically to ask people who percieve themselves to be struggling already, to give up even more energy, for no real gain, to poor people on the other side of the world who haven't "earned" it, particularly from the energy rich countries.
I would be very surprised if any country would ever agree to having mandatory reductions imposed on them and then being obligated to export excess nergy to poor countries for the privelege. More likely that energy rich nations would agree to limit the total emissions (contraction) and husband the remaining fossil fuels for their own benefit in the future.
The idea that you can pay the poor for something they never possesed is ludicrous and will never get up
Whether or not nations will ever agree to mandatory reductions, your last sentence ignores the importance of the concept of negative externalities on the emission of CO2 gases. By definition, a negative externality occurs when two parties engaged in an exchange produce an undesired effect on a third party. In this case, fossil fuel producing and consuming parties are getting wealthy from the use of fossil fuels, with their consequent release of CO2. The CO2 is our negative externality, as it results in climate change that is disproportionately experienced by the poorest people in the poorest nations of the world. The Wikipedia article on negative externalities recognizes four means of addressing them, which I partially quote:
"
* Criminalization: As with many types of environmental and public health laws.
* Civil Tort law: Class action [by the third party], various product liability suits.
* Government provision: As with lighthouses, education, and national defense.
* Pigovian taxes or subsidies intended to redress economic injustices or imbalances.
."
Seen in this light, a cap-and-trade system seems to be a combination of the first and last: Criminalization and Pigovian taxes. Essentially, cap-and-trade is a combination of two processes: (1) creating and enforcing a legal limit to total production of CO2 - that is then distributed equitably on a per-capita basis - in order to keep aggregate releases below a level that would result in dangerous and potentially destabilizing changes to global climate (which is essentially a public good, non-rivalrous and non-excludable); and (2) "taxing" those who release more than their per-capita share of CO2 while redistributing this wealth to (i.e. subsidizing) those who consume less than their per-capita share and who, not coincidentally, are also currently the most common members of the third party sufferers.
No I didn't ignore it, I just pointed out the reality that Robin Hood politics is not something that people in rich western nations will ever vote for. I know I wouldn't be too keen to see my children suffer limitations and then paying people like Robert Mugabe for the privelege.
Unles you are proposing world government, I don't see how you can "enforce" a worldwide legal limit. It nmay all seem very logical and straightforward but executing such a plan is, I believe next to impossible. It's why we get things like the Kyoto protocol, warm fuzzy motherhood statements that lead to no action by anyone.
Tariffs are away to tax foreigners. A carbon tariff equal to or greater than the domestic carbon tax means China can't dump cheap goods on consuming countries. It is part of my contrarian nature to put limits on free trade in order to benefit importing nations like the US. The American middle class grew in an environment of protective tariffs and has shrunk as the tariffs were removed. Somehow the elite forgot that without producers making good wages they would eventually consume less of whatever is imported.
Cap and trade is merely another chip in the financial jugglers casino, dreamed up by bureaucrats, honed by lawyers, loved by poiticians, and the next festering sore down the road on Wail Street as the pension funds suck them up.
This discussion of volatility reminds me very much of Dr. Bakhtiari's work on the four stages of decline [ more at www.samsambakhtiari.com. His first stage, T1, was marked by volatility as oil markets bounced back and forth between supply and demand constraints. T1 ends when the markets are completely bound by supply constraints. Presumably the price of all forms of energy would then stabilize at some much higher level. [Though I do see how various "above ground" factors could now and then drop the price even in such a constrained environment, eg "this tanker just arrived and we have to unload it. NOW."
cfm in Gray, ME
Backstop,
Superficially your argument sound good. Typical bureaucratic jumble of redefining and renaming ideas and mooting ideas which nobody has the slightest intention of following.
"Houston we have a problem" -- lets propose a motion, to elect a committee, to see if there are sufficient grounds, to take any action.
Lets sell carbon credits on the stock market.Lets allocate energy usage to the third world.
In the 70's after that oil crisis I lectured (paid by the Govt) to communities on how to reduce our Canadian dependence on heating oil.
The Govt gave us interest free loans to install efficient thermostat and heating systems (I explained to the people how it would pay off)
In panic, Canada developed an Energy Policy.
By God!! no sooner had the oil problem disappeared, than the financial prostitutes, seeing profits, killed the Energy Policy and lost interest in heating oil conservation, or any conservation for that matter.
I happened to be an infrared thermographic engineer who could quantify any and all heat escaping out of anything.
It was not long before Canada started building Mega-houses that wasted more heat than a chimney stack.
The Government, the Architects, the building inspectors and the builders did not give a damn that we were setting ourselves up for what is finally happening to us.
Bureaucrats, committees and govt. departments only shuffle the papers put on their desks. Policy prohibits actually looking out of the window.
I have no fear that any meeting of any organization will actually cause a solution.
Graham