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145 comments on DrumBeat: August 10, 2008
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145 comments on DrumBeat: August 10, 2008
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"Urban Rail can...simply crowd the trains more."
And maybe that politically expedient way of adding capacity helps account for its still-negligible overall US market share, outside of New York City. Have you ever ridden the Lexington Avenue subway in from Brooklyn during rush hour? Who in their right mind wants to do that every day? Who in their right mind wants to live where they have to do that every day? And try it on a sizzling August day when the power goes out and the jampacked train gets stuck for an hour or two with no ventilation. And good luck getting the MTA to foot the hospital bill for the heat prostration. (Well, OK, granted, a few people feel they just must live in New York City, and for a few of those few, it's actually true, although what really keeps the Lex full is immigration, legal and otherwise - same as the Paris Metro and some other rail systems across the world. And anyway nobody ever said that Brooklynites are in their right minds...)
'Who in their right mind wants to do that every day?'
If you're looking for a memorable quote, Yogi got there first.
Clearly it's more than a 'Few' people, and they seem to come back, day after day. Yes, it's obnoxious, uncomfortable and exhausting. But they keep finding it useful enough to fill it up.
As for aspersions of 'other than legal' immigrants.. it looks like you're running for office somewhere.. those trains are used by everyone. Fancy and Trashy, Rich and Poor, American and Otherwise.
Who wants to do that every day? Maybe people whose other options have become unsupportable.
Or maybe, in at least some cases, just people too unimaginative or dimwitted to consider other options. It's a huge country, after all - Manhattan and downtown Brooklyn are only a very, very tiny part of it despite the image in the cartoon. But then again: "No one in this world so far as I know—and I have searched the records for years, and employed agents to help me—has ever lost money by underestimating the intelligence of the great masses of the plain people." (—H.L. Mencken, Chicago Daily Tribune, September 19, 1926)
As to the occupants of the trains, it's not just an American thing. One of my 'favorite' occurrences was the time when a couple of us got to the platform on the Paris Metro (RATP), and nothing was moving. Soon they announced (in French only, naturally, and well-garbled by the typical cheapskate PA system found on subways the world over) that service was discontinued (with no estimated time for restarting, and most likely due to a routine bomb threat but who knows.) So almost everyone just stood there obliviously as though their train was still about to arrive. Nobody there to speak of but tourists and immigrants from the Maghreb, none of them giving any sign of understanding any French. After all, the long-time natives were busy burning expensive fuel by clogging up the surface streets to near gridlock, as always. So we just left along with a few others, and took an RER train to the general area where we were going.
That's what I used to do, when I worked in NYC.
They would announce that no trains were running, and that people should take buses or whatever.
But no one believed them. They just said that to get people out of Grand Central. With the trains delayed, there were so many people backed up in the station that it was a fire hazard. So they'd say anything to get people out of the station.
Savvy commuters knew that, so they'd wait anyway, and usually the trains would be running again in an hour or two.
Actually, when we got to our RER destination, the RATP line still wasn't running. In Paris, at least, they really meant it. NYC, though, has a real problem at Grand Central, and the parallel Metro North (rough RER equivalent) line is not useful for local transportation. That's why they need the Second Avenue Subway, the one that's been mired in political corruption for, oh, the least 60 or 70 years, bonded several times and still not finished. It was even worse when they were running four-car trains to 'save money', as the platforms became packed and dangerous; maybe that's when you were working there?
An hour or two? And trains are to be our transportation salvation? What do you do with your evening plans when you're two hours late getting back home? Who gets the kids fed and off to baseball practice?
Heck, I hate waiting on a PLANE that's 2 hours late once a month, let along a train that I'd use daily.
In NYC, you either get used to it, or you leave. I left.
A lot of people have to pick up their kids from daycare. These places usually have very hefty fines for being late.
New Yorkers are used it.
Even if you drive, you run the risk of major and unpredictable delays, because the traffic is so heavy. So there's a lot of tolerance built into scheduling. (Indeed, you are more likely to be on time if you take public transportation.) They're really just a lot more laid back about punctuality there. I kind of liked it, frankly.
I'm not sure what your point is. That train breakdowns suck? Here's a hint: trains in other countries (except Britain) don't break down. Are the Brooklyn subways running a full 22 trains an hour, like the ones in Hong Kong or Tokyo? Where are you commuting from and to? Brooklyn Heights to Wall Street is one whole stop, about eight minutes. Cry me a river.
I used to live in Jersey City, and commuted to Wall Street using the decrepit old PATH system. Even so, it was very nice to live only two stops (ten minutes) from work, and not have to drive.
I have also lived 42 miles from New York, in a coastal suburb. It took me 90 minutes each way to get to work (on the train). Who in their right minds wants to do that every day?
I suppose part of my point is that most of the older train systems in this country suck rather badly, so who is going to vote to subsidize more of the awful same, and why should they? After all, people in upstate New York have been fed up for a very long time with pouring money down the New York City rathole, in return for nothing. And Alan's proposals for 'saving money' by making train systems suck even more badly only make this little part of the matter even worse. In the end, unless you are one of the very few whose occupation truly requires it, why even bother trying to live and work in a corrupt, crime-ridden, dysfunctional, massively overpopulated place like New York City, Chicago, or Los Angeles, at all?
Well, if you're gay, black or leftist you might feel safer in those places than, say, Laramie, Wyoming, where Matthew Shepard was beaten to death and hung on a fence in 1998.
And since the GOP white suburbs would not even exist without the pinko welfare negro cities you so clearly despise, moving to the suburbs is no national alternative, Kunstler's arguments aside.
As for corruption, the drug routes into America have corrupted many whitebread towns, and it will get worse, though not reported.
Most of all, as the book "What's the Matter With Kansas" points out, rural red-state America is getting poorer. If you require an occupation that pays more than $10 an hour, the cities (and ports) remain the gateway to the middle class that they have always been. My friend Mike, who worked dual jobs at the University of Houston as a mass-communications instructor and a systems tech (pretty bright), could not find a decent job when he moved to Hays, Kansas due to his wife's faculty job, and ended up as a salesman at a stereo store. Now he's back at UH and clearing 50 grand. As far as he could ascertain, Hays had no use for intelligent people at all.
A couple of points... it has been quite a number of years since upstate NY has been subsidizing downstate NY. The flow of tax receipts, AFIK, reversed with the decline of manufacturing and population exodus from upstate; two-third of the population is downstate, too. Try riding transit in a city or country where it works well (try Switzerland sometime). It is a national priority and it is designed by smart people and run by a conscientious work force. The reason rail and transit does work in the US is two-fold -- we spend too much of GDP on non-productive pursuits (e.g., military, prisons, medical, etc) and the TPTB do not want functional mass transit or rail because it would kill their sprawl machine.
Alan's proposals for 'saving money' by making train systems suck even more badly
Serial mis-characterization, but on this point, tighter headways IMPROVES service, longer trains is basically neutral from a service POV (great for economics) and only packing more people on-board makes service worse (but FAR better to be crowded on a train than a bus, due to motions & vibrations).
Alan
To be fair, mass transit in general and people on trains (especially shared rail) would have to get a lot better, but that shouldn't be THAT hard to do.
Testimonials, good or bad, pale compared to statistics, but my limited experience on public transit is:
- airport trams are slow and bumpy, but reliable and fairly deterministic
- the Metro in DC works pretty well, if you plan your hotel properly. Every public place (conference or tourist site) I needed to go seemed to be easier by Metro than by car. If I lived there I don't think I'd have a car, but I'd choose my situation carefully.
- the subway/train in Atlanta works fine from the airport to downtown and the mall area up north. Wandering off the tourist part of downtown was kinda scary at night. Otherwise it worked fine.
- buses in Atlanta are slow, late, and crowded. They fit for "adventure" and "vacation" but I'd prefer not to depend on them daily.
- street cars in SF are fine for where they go. The passengers are the most interesting in the world, so far as I can tell. I've never had more fun walking a city than there. BART seemed to work fine for the one time I rode it, but it was just for fun. If I lived in SF I don't think I'd even have a car.
- the NO buses and street cars I rode were just for sight-seeing and fun, and they seemed unobjectionable.
- trains in Europe (the low countries) seemed business like and efficient. That was a long time ago, though.
All in all, I like trains for leisure trips, and sometimes even for simple business trips (like conventions, where you have the airport and a convention center, and maybe some local dining). Usually there is always a sales guy with car if you need a ride, anyway.
I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable having my sixteen year old daughter take a sibling or two across town on a bus or train, though. I've had enough weirdos next to me that I can't imagine what life as a cute girl would be like. Ditto with walking in some downtown areas.
I think dedicated rail, or passenger trains get priority, a firm commitment to timeliness (better than the airlines, for sure!), clean trains, and highly visible security would be important to me. Surely this is all possible?
I am puzzled. "Highly visible security" ? WHY ?
Alan
Well, maybe my mid-US experience is atypical, but here single women (alone or in pairs) will not go "downtown" near the bus station unescorted day or night, and I saw few single women on the Atlanta Metro except during busy daytime hours. Downtown Atlanta, though, was alive from early until late, and seemed to meet some psychological "safeness" threshold, as single women were prevalent, even at night.
But I also observed there were a LOT of "offical" people around (many with radios), helping with directions, sweeping up litter, watering trees, and so forth, plus a good smattering of cops.
Here suburban shopping malls pass muster, and of course suburban restaurants and mostly their parking lots do as well, but mall parking lots, Walmart lots, and other more desolate area don't at night. There is some density of people, lighting, and visible security that is needed, IMHO.
My wife and daughter have corroborated these biases, and I've noticed long-term that restaurants, clubs, and theaters in the "questionable" areas generally fail quickly after opening (except donut and sandwich shops that are open only during the daytime hours). My observation is that guys go spend money where unescorted girls can be found, and such girls are found only where they feel "safe".
Heck, there were places in SF, Atlanta, NO, and DC where I didn't really feel safe walking alone, and there are few who'd want to carry me off for unspeakable deeds! Mostly I was fine on the trains/trams, but there were a couple of times when crazy people made me uncomfortable. My favorite was the guy who was muttering "Shall I kill them? Should I kill them?........No....No...Should I?.......No...NO...." Then he jumped up, screamed at the top of his lungs, and jumped off the streetcar while it was moving at a decent clip, only to get back on his feet and take off running.
I don't think any of my daughters would be comfortable riding that line after something like that.
I realize I'm not a typical urban commuter, but I suspect my biases are not unusual at all.
Your thoughts?
Statistically, transit is uniformly the safest part of a city. But Suburbanites seem to demand armed security form the "Other".
TriRail is the South Florida commuter rail line (Palm Beach, Ft. Lauderdale & Miami) and I was shocked to see the conductors packing pistols. Miami has a gadgetbahn (MetroMover) going from one office building to another downtown and the "armed presence" at every station was oppressive and unpleasant to me.
Pre-Katrina New Orleans streetcars ran 24 hours/day and I "too often" caught the 3 AM or so streetcar and enjoyed being part of the party at the streetcar stop opposite Bourbon Street waiting for the every 30 minutes streetcar. Relatively few women party alone, but many get off work late at night and take the streetcar home (and a few come to work at 2 or 3 AM).
New Orleans has long been tolerant of the mentally ill (we get the Tourette Syndrome conference every other year because we are the most Tourette friendly city) and I really do not have a problem with them (more likely to reach out and help if I see a good opportunity).
I was once, and only once, robbed at gunpoint, by two clean cut early 20s white guys. One in an Izod and the other in a buttondown shirt. That experience has certainly made me quite leary of Suburbanites !
You never know when they will pull a gun on you !
Best Hopes for Less Fear of Strangers#,
Alan
# Clean cut middle class guys excepted :-P
I've never claimed to like strangers (or non-strangers, mostly!), but to be fair my most personable wife does, and she is far more concerned about such environments than I.
Funny you should say that about armed suburbanites. I was just thinking, "Hmm...maybe it wouldn't be so bad if I were armed?"
Once long ago though, I was part of a rails-to-trails movement, and faced many completely irrational fears from rural farmers, so I can your side too. "Dope dealers from the city will push drugs to our kids". "Crime at night" etc. Of course, most recreational cyclists are affluent 20 or 30-somethings, most drug-dealers aren't going to ride 40 miles to sell some dope, and most rural kids are much more likely to see meth or pot locally than city dealers. The biggest risk for rural communities would be selling out of flapjacks and juice at noon on Saturday when the weekend riders wanted to take a break.
So I realize my possible irrationalities, but it'll take some time for my biases to relax. I spent almost a decade living downtown, and I gotta say suburbia is MUCH better living here than downtown (midtown is OK though). Maybe that will change too, someday?
To quote former local reporter Hoda Kotb, interviewed by her former station when she got the "extra hour" NBC Today Show gig,
"There is New Orleans, then San Francisco and then New York City. The rest of America is just McDonalds".
I walked to a superb, but little known, restaurant in a 1750s building (the former Jesuit hospital outside town) Le Citron Bistro for lunch today with friends. The waiter has a PhD in Social Work and does this for extra money (and social interaction) (He is also gay, wears a yarmulke and keeps kosher). The chef works for the City of New Orleans emergency management (former Military Intelligence) and comes out and chats after the last dish is served. Olympics and Georgia were the topics today, but also a bit of everything. The chef had some good insights on Georgia.
Warm, intelligent and entertaining conversation between strangers & friends (although I am no longer a stranger to the staff but my friends were) coupled with great food (I got the BEST fried green tomatoes I have every had as an appetizer. A good dark rue Shrimp & Sausage okra Gumbo) and a truly unique atmosphere.
I have a hard time imaging a better (and longer) Sunday lunch. What does Suburbia have to offer that compares ?
Best Hopes for Truly Enjoying Life,
Alan
I'm sure that these kinds of places exist in other rural states, but in many places in Arkansas there are little diners in the middle of practically nowhere that cater to the local folk, travelers, and bikers. Some really good home-cooked style food can be found in these joints, in some of the most unexpected places. I was riding my motorcycle and came across this place in a town I can't even remember that was by the Mulberry River somewhere near Ozone, AR. The town had to have a mere 300-400 residents, but there was this gas station with a diner and mercantile store inside. The food was great (greasy spoon type) and lots of locals and bikers there.
These kinds of places have had more business lately as the locals decide to go there instead of driving further in to town when they don't want to cook, and I've noticed more people doing motorcycle riding for mini vacations instead of going somewhere in a car/RV/flying. It makes for friendly people, great food, and a good relaxing time. :)